Toe drags... help with technique?

[eatspaste]

Hey all-

While I was riding Palomar today (beatiful day BTW), I dragged my right toe on two separate occasions. After the first I tried to stay on the ball of my foot, but still managed to drag it a few corners later.

What is the "proper" position for my right foot? Is it ok to drag a foot?? Doesn't seem right considering that I don't drag my knees...

Any help appreciated.

Thanks!

[GPTECHMAN]

Havent seen your ride, but regardless dragging toe is a result of too much lean angle. Especially if you have the balls of your feet on the pegs. I am just making assumptions but I would think that you are probably not hanging off or crossed up if you are. Try offsetting your center of gravity by moving your upper body off. As some people refer to this as "kissing your mirrors". Most of a guys weight is in his upper body so it is important to get that off of the bike as opposed to scooting off your seat and putting that leg out. The more you keep the bike upright the more corner speed you can acheive and the more control of your bike you have. If you are draggin toe something needs to change as you are getting close to scraping hard parts...which then leads to scrapage of "soft parts"

[Cyanide41]

I agree with everything he just said

[brakstad]

What kind of bike do you ride?? I think that might have a lot to do with it... On my Triumph S3, it was really easy to drag toe before dragging knee; all to do with the rear set potitioning (I was kissing the mirror like a mo-fo!). On my RC-51 with Sato rear sets, I have to try really hard to drag toe... Sounds like your foot positioning is OK, but maybe some rear sets should be added to your shopping cart...

[mieff]

What kind of bike do you ride??

he's got a '99 CBR F4 and the rear sets are stock. i've riden it and after riding my bike ('05 R6) i did notice that the rear sets on his bike felt a little low.

[cbrsmurf]

he's got a '99 CBR F4 and the rear sets are stock. i've riden it and after riding my bike ('05 R6) i did notice that the rear sets on his bike felt a little low.

they aren't that low, though. Something's not right with your form if you are dragging toe before knee on a F4.

[mieff]

they aren't that low, though. Something's not right with your form if you are dragging toe before knee on a F4.

yeah. they just felt lower than my R6. i wouldn't say that they felt abnormally low though. but then again, i'm a bit of a newb myself, so what do i know. :squid:

[cbrsmurf]

yeah. they just felt lower than my R6. i wouldn't say that they felt abnormally low though. but then again, i'm a bit of a newb myself, so what do i know. :squid:

you're right, they are lower than the R6's for sure

[eatspaste]

So nobody wants to propose that I rip so hard that I drag toe? Haha. :squid:

I've never seen me ride either, but I think the upper body thing is where my problem is. To be honest, I've never really paid much attention to my upper body position. Saturday I'll be puckering up to my mirrors and get back to 'yall about how things work out.

The rearsets ARE kinda low and wide, but I think it's more likely my technique (or lack thereof).

Just to be clear about it: the goal is to get my weight inside the corner and forward while trying carry the bike more upright through the corner. Correct???

Can anyone advise about foot position ON the pegs while cornering?? Should my heel be on the peg (note: this is hard for me to do with my right foot as it will cover the rear brake and I'd have to keep my ankle flexed), or should I stay on the balls of my feet?

Thanks for the input!

[mieff]

Can anyone advise about foot position ON the pegs while cornering?? Should my heel be on the peg (note: this is hard for me to do with my right foot as it will cover the rear brake and I'd have to keep my ankle flexed), or should I stay on the balls of my feet?

Basically, this is how you want your feet to be doogay.

http://www.allfortheride.com/photos/110344233-L-2.jpg

[eatspaste]

Basically, this is how you want your feet to be doogay.

http://www.allfortheride.com/photos/110344233-L-2.jpg


Cool- got a pic of a well placed right foot??

[eatspaste]

Here's my right foot, entering a corner... how do the rearsets look?

[GPTECHMAN]

Here are some shots of what works for stroble...it also so happens that the motogp guys like it too :thumbsup:
http://gptech.smugmug.com/photos/58785506-L-1.jpg

http://gptech.smugmug.com/photos/58786769-L-1.jpg

http://gptech.smugmug.com/photos/58799228-L-1.jpg

I personally cant do it that way though

[GPTECHMAN]

http://images.motogp.com/multimedia2/486/486601_25285.jpg

http://images.motogp.com/multimedia2/486/486622_87666.jpg


I think that it is important to note that these guys dont really hook in in all turns, and that some more quick flicking turns may be more on the ball of their feet.

[eatspaste]

Excellent! Thanks all- I like this thread! :)

the pics bring up another question: who uses their back brake coming into a turn?? I've been told that it's kinda pointless except when traction is an issue (because most sport bikes can raise the back tire with the front brake). True or false?? YEah I know what the MSF says, but the counterargument is pretty convincing.

[Termin8r]

The picture of you with your right foot showing is irrelevant because it's on the outside of the turn. The only thing you worry about with the outside foot is weighting the peg (flex your thighs) to give you leverage to help push on the inside clip on when countersteering. I like to push back on the outside peg while some push down.

On the inside, listen to what Sean says about hanging off more. Your picture makes you appear totally upright and too forward on the seat. Sit back a little and lock your outside knee against the tank and lean off (ass lined up with your head and parallel with line of your motorcycle from front to back). Before you enter the turn, put the ball of your feet up higher on the peg (almost like you're going to tippy toe on it) so you don't adjust during the turn.

[sandogn]

Here is one of the best tips I ever got.

Make sure your outside arm is as straight as possible and going across the tank while turning. Do this and it ensures that your upper body is off the bike. Next time you are in a corner ask yourself if your outside arm is streching across the tank or not.

Look at the pic of Hayden (Actually it look more like Pedrosa now that I have looked again) on the previous page, you can see his arm is fairly straight and is going directly across the tank.....

Another good one of Pedrosa:

http://www.autocity.com/img/actualidad/noticias/pedrosa_not.jpg

[eatspaste]

Hey all- just a followup. I was working on my body positioning this Sat- Rick Clemson got a shot of a right hander... I think I've improved a bit, but I'm going to keep working on it. Best of all, NO TOE dragging this weekend!! :cheers: Thanks again for the help/input!

[mieff]

Talk about foot dragging....this guy's dragging his whole boot...damn

http://www.rickclemson.com/UploadScript/Gallery/_MG_11992.jpg

[eatspaste]

Yeah I saw that one- he's got a couple shots with similar body positioning. Yikes!

[sandogn]

That pic of the other guy just looks wrong!!! He almost has his inside upper arm going across the tank. Seems like the guy is more interested in dragging knee than actually trying to corner properly.

[eatspaste]

That pic just looks wrong!!! He almost has his inside upper arm going across the tank. Seems like the guy is more interested in dragging knee than actually trying to corner properly.

I still consider myself newb, so I'm not really in a position to critique someone else's technique... but I'm glad you did!!! :ha:

[spewmonkey]

I still consider myself newb, so I'm not really in a position to critique someone else's technique... but I'm glad you did!!! :ha:
+1, that guy was fast and rather rude, we had a brief run in with him when Denton and I were clearing the road of large debris on line / in blind areas. I think my form is improving thanks in part to Rick and Keith's photos

[mieff]

I think my form is improving thanks in part to Rick and Keith's photos

me too...seeing the images that they've taken has been very helpful to see what i'm ACTUALLY doing...as opposed to what i think i'm doing. thanks keith and rick. :guitar:

[gixxerkt]

Good thread and pics.

The more I think about it, there are certainly basic right and wrongs wrt proper body position. However, I think there is still plenty of room for individuality...more than one right way. I do believe that the "kiss the mirror" description is a pretty good one for getting your body in basically the correct position. For example paste, look how high your head is...and the higher your head, the higher your upper body, the higher your CG (unless you have all of your weight on the pegs).

As for the pic of the dude in the blue/white Alpinestars above, I don't think his position is that bad. In fact, if you take a look back of some classic Mick Doohan pics (wish I had one handy to post), their basic positions are very similar. Hard to put much weight on your outside peg in this position, though. I actually ride in a similar body position (prolly from watching too much Doohan GP racing in the early 90s), and I occasionally have my outside foot slip off the peg from so little weight, so I am currently working toward more of a "kiss the mirror" position.

As for the toe touch, it happens...with good foot position. In fact, I think that that's what the toe slider is for. But, if the toe is draggin and the foot is in the "correct" position, then you are probably close to the edge of traction / running out of tire.

Hope it helps. Bryan (fratellobp, kt's boyfriend).

[GixerKat]

I drag right side toe sometimes too. Mines due to having my foot way out on the peg (half my foot off the peg) and usually when I do that I'm dragging knee at the same time. I ride on the balls so I know I'm close to the peg and thats worries me alot
Only right handers though, left handers are all knee. Wonder if it has anything to do with boot clrearence with my High mount Scorpion.

[sandogn]

Good thread and pics.

The more I think about it, there are certainly basic right and wrongs wrt proper body position. However, I think there is still plenty of room for individuality...more than one right way. I do believe that the "kiss the mirror" description is a pretty good one for getting your body in basically the correct position. For example paste, look how high your head is...and the higher your head, the higher your upper body, the higher your CG (unless you have all of your weight on the pegs).

As for the pic of the dude in the blue/white Alpinestars above, I don't think his position is that bad. In fact, if you take a look back of some classic Mick Doohan pics (wish I had one handy to post), their basic positions are very similar. Hard to put much weight on your outside peg in this position, though. I actually ride in a similar body position (prolly from watching too much Doohan GP racing in the early 90s), and I occasionally have my outside foot slip off the peg from so little weight, so I am currently working toward more of a "kiss the mirror" position.

As for the toe touch, it happens...with good foot position. In fact, I think that that's what the toe slider is for. But, if the toe is draggin and the foot is in the "correct" position, then you are probably close to the edge of traction / running out of tire.

Hope it helps. Bryan (fratellobp, kt's boyfriend).

IMO body position really is not that important like you say above and there is room for individuality, but this thread was specifically about how "not" to drag toe. Riding like Doohan is not the answer to minimize toe dragging. For those that know me, they will tell you that I burn through more knee pucks and toe sliders than any fool out there, or at least I used to before I smartened up. Because I was dragging so much stuff and it was getting annoying I had to learn alternantive body positioning to keep me from dragging knees and toes all the time. In just one trackday I could wear a toe slider to the boot and a knee slider into my leathers because I used bad form.

Dragging toe does not mean that you are going fast or are at max lean angle. Did you ever look at the boots of "the fastest guy at the track"? Usually he does not have much wear on his toe sliders.

All in all I think you have made the right decision to find a way to stop dragging toe. As you get faster finding ways to drag less will be more important. Think of it this way, if the guys that are faster than you are not dragging toe how much faster you could be if the side of your foot was not on the ground?? Like I said, body position is not than important, but in your case you might be a little better off if you found a way to keep those toes off the pavement:thumbsup:

[deno]

aside from style points and all.

better body position = less dragging = more contact patch =more traction = more speed

[adobo]

Talk about foot dragging....this guy's dragging his whole boot...damn

http://www.rickclemson.com/UploadScript/Gallery/_MG_11992.jpg

this guy's body position is all f*cked up... look where his head is, it's almost on the other side of the bike...

in short, leaning/hanging/dragging knee has one purpose, and that is to move the center of gravity off to the side of the bike, so you can have more speed at LESS lean angle...

more lean angle != faster
Dragging more body parts != faster

as for your feet position, the motogp guys can use the archs of their boots because their rear sets are SUPER high and back, therefore will hardly ever drag toe. As for us with street bikes and stock pegs, your best bet is to use the balls of your feet.

if you do find yourself still dragging toe after adjusting your body position off the bike more, then i would suggest getting some adjustable rearsets.

[triplestack3]

he wrecked this weekend.

best wishes for a recovery

[triplestack3]

http://www.hypercycles.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10882