Qusetion on speedshifting

[prodigy]

so some guy yesterday told that I don't need to use the clutch after going from 1st to 2nd...apparently its called speed shifting or something similar (letting off of it and applying some pressure to the gear lever)

Does this damage anything on the bike in any way?

[sdtraviesosd]

no clue if it damages anything but I do this sometimes just for the heck of it. my bike jumps like crazy tho if im going at it hard. even i would say after 10k rmps it jumps pretty hard so if you do this be careful and anticipate a jump from your bike. you can also downshift doing this technique just let off the throttle and push down on the gear selector. make sure that its not going to redline if you shift down tho. that might be bad. haha.GL

[melonheadR6]

so some guy yesterday told that I don't need to use the clutch after going from 1st to 2nd...apparently its called speed shifting or something similar (letting off of it and applying some pressure to the gear lever)

Does this damage anything on the bike in any way?

No damage to bike if you do it correctly. Do not preload the lever prior to shifting.

This clutchless upshifting is very useful at the track. Done quickly and correctly, the action is super smooth without any "jumping."

1. Rev the bike up
2. cut throttle
3. upshift
4. power back on

I haven't ridden the street in a long while so most of my clutchless upshifts were at redline at the track. So I would venture to say the higher the RPM, the smoother the shift.

[Fixcinater]

I very rarely, if ever, use my clutch anymore to shift. Practice makes perfect, and the more revs you've got going, the easier it is. Slow speed and low rev clutchless shifting is much harder to pull off smoothly.

[prodigy]

cool..thanks guys

yea I did notice a little bit of a "jump" when I tried it out yesterday, but I was only at like 6k.

melonheadR6 do you do the same thing on the track w/ downshifts?

[mieff]

i've heard that it's not recommended for downshifting as it can easily jack up your tranny.

[casper13]

Yea its pretty hard on tranny doing the downshift. I play wth doing both when im just riding around, gf use to get mad when I would downshift with no clutch and she was on back cause it does jerk pretty hard, but I do like doing the clutchless upshift from time to time

[OG Gook]

I wouldn't recommend clutchless downshifts. Downshift without the clutch going too fast and you're liable to back it in inadvertantly. And without the clutch to modulate wheelspin, you'd be in for a surprise if you're not experienced in that sort of thing.

But upshift to your hearts content.

[hhakana]

Upshift= Ok
Downshift=lock up your tranny/mess with the gear box even more...thats a no no!

I envy slipper clutch mmm

[melonheadR6]

cool..thanks guys

yea I did notice a little bit of a "jump" when I tried it out yesterday, but I was only at like 6k.

melonheadR6 do you do the same thing on the track w/ downshifts?

I have not attempted the clutchless downshift. That requires some serious practice/skillz. :thumbsup:

[sdtraviesosd]

i do downshifting with no clutch, but only when im positive that it wont mess me up. like when im in 4th running at 4000 rmp.

[flare]

No damage to bike if you do it correctly. Do not preload the lever prior to shifting.

This clutchless upshifting is very useful at the track. Done quickly and correctly, the action is super smooth without any "jumping."

1. Rev the bike up
2. cut throttle
3. upshift
4. power back on

I haven't ridden the street in a long while so most of my clutchless upshifts were at redline at the track. So I would venture to say the higher the RPM, the smoother the shift.


why not preload lever?

[shaggy]

preloading the lever can put a lot fo pressure on the shift forks and bend something, also you want no load on the tranny when you roll off the gas, then make your shift, then get back on the gas. Practice makes perfect.

I clutchless up and down shift religiously at the track, downshifting is much more difficult, very easy to jack something up inside your tranny, but once you get it figured out and smooth, you shouldn't have any issues. Deffinitely wouldn't recomend it though for a newer, b or c group rider though...

[flare]

this is a bit hard to swallow. i've been taught to preload the shift lever when upshifting by everyone from my msf instructor and mechanic to lee parks and keith code. i was under the impression that preloading would help unload the transmission when rolling off the throttle slightly by its torque forces and thus slip into the next higher gear. it sure feels smoother that way. hm, but you're saying that could potentially bend shift forks? i'm so confused. :confused: :confused:

[melonheadR6]

I'm with Shaggy. Negatory on the preload.

[shaggy]

you shouldn't preload at all, if you time it right, and you'll know cause it will be VERY smooth, then you shoudl eb shifting just as the load is taken off the tranny, not before.

[flare]

what about throttle? do you roll completely off or partially?

[melonheadR6]

all the way off

[JustPha]

Sorry for the newbie question: what's preloading?

Is it when you press up against the shifter as you release the throttle until the RPM matches for up shifting to be possible?

If so, I find it hard to smoothly shift while pre-loading from gear 2 to 3. (But from gear 3 and on, pre-loading makes the shifting goes very smoothly)

Shaggy, how do you down shift without using the clutch?

[adobo]

i think with pre-loading you apply a little pressure to the shifter while you are on the throttle... when you let off the throttle the shifter should kind of just "slip" into the next gear. At least that's what i do.. and it's pretty smooth... i'll try not pre-loading it and see if i can get it smooth too.

[SpecialisTX]

hey speaking of speedshifting, i just heard from another fellow yesterday about speedshifting in a car... does it work out the same way?

[sdtraviesosd]

yes. you can definitely do it!

[melonheadR6]

hey speaking of speedshifting, i just heard from another fellow yesterday about speedshifting in a car... does it work out the same way?

It's a little different in cars since you have neutral in between each gear. It takes a fair bit of practice to get the timing down. You'll have to let off the gas, slide it into neutral and apply a slight bit of pressure on the gate. It'll slide in when the synchros had done their work.

I'm not sure if that would qualify as "speed shifting." But it is clutchless...

[flare]

found the article on clutchless shifting on sportsrider mag.

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/146_0409_sport_bike_clutchless_upshifting/index.html

[GetnJgyWitit]

I just use the clutch. If you are letting off of the gas to "speedshift" then pulling in the clutch really doesn't take up that much more time. Plus you don't have to pull in the clutch all the way. The only time I think I would start "speedshifting" is if I had a quick shift installed. Otherwise I use the clutch on the down shift too. It allows me to use the clutch as almost a rear brake. The funny thing is that I didn't really notice that you could really use the clutch as a rear brake until I got really good front brakes!

[vale46]

I alway speedshift up too. Like many here, I believe -- and have read and heard from many veteran riders -- that shifting down without disengaging the clutch can really mess up the gearbox.. anyways, one other thing i wanted to add is that when you roll off the throttle, just give a little flick to the gear lever.. and by little i mean, smooth and soft...it's completely unnecessary to move the lever in a harsh motion.

.... when you are on the throttle accelerating, naturally you need to shift up. If you use the clutch, you have to roll off the throttle and then disengage the clutch; and in that position, the bike decelerates and puts a lot of pressure on the engine and the gearbox. normally, if you pay attention, you can hear a really bad *clong*noise when you shift gear... since the process of speedshifting happens quickly (the whole thing should happen less than a second), it doesn't put pressure on the gearbox and provides a very smooth transition...but if you like to use the clutch, you should start practicing to blip even for upshifting.

[vale46]

Upshift= Ok
Downshift=lock up your tranny/mess with the gear box even more...thats a no no!

I envy slipper clutch mmm

so true....who doesn't envy slipper clutch? can't imagine coming to a corner going down through the gear, bamm, bamm, bamm, bamm, hard on the brakes, easy roll of the throttle, hit the apex, and off you go, open the throttle, without the slipper clutch!!! hmmmmmmmmmmm! nice.. imagine doing that without a slipper clutch, asking for really nasty highside!

[mrdangle]

on the streets i use the clutch to shift up and down ... track i shift up without clutch ... havent tried downshifting without clutch ... i do have stm slipper clutch on the way :P