Weighting the inside peg or outside peg

[cbrsmurf]

So I've recently heard that weighting the inside peg gives you better turn in while weighting the outside peg gives you more stability. To me, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference I can feel. What do you guys do?

[afrothunder]

Pegs are for you're feet. I honestly can't see putting any weight on either outside or inside make a huge amount of difference. I actually push on my outter pegs when in lean to get a better grip on the tank. other than that, yes weight is on my inside pegs when hanging off, but I cant imagine it making that much of a difference since there isnt much leverage

[GPTECHMAN]

haha I was logged on as joshua

[Arnold_R1]

what he said! ;)

[nsr600rr]

It makes sense to me. It's like standing with your feet together vs. wider apart. If you have your feet together and someone pushes you sideways, you'll fall over fairly easily. If you have your feet wide apart and someone pushes you sideways, you're more stable. Make sense? With your feet on the outer part of the pegs, your body is more stable on the bike. When you have your feet on the inner portion, you can hang off farther-well something like that. mmmkay yeah.

[afrothunder]

Originally posted by afrothunder
Pegs are for you're feet. I honestly can't see putting any weight on either outside or inside make a huge amount of difference. I actually push on my outter pegs when in lean to get a better grip on the tank. other than that, yes weight is on my inside pegs when hanging off, but I cant imagine it making that much of a difference since there isnt much leverage

WOW! i am so knowledemable!

[GPTECHMAN]

ok Jeff define stability? are you talking about how you feel on the bike, or the bike itself(suspension and chassis)?

[dre_2k2_f4i]

Sorry, gotta cross post here because there are lots of good tips (except mine, just ignore those) (http://socalsportbikes.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=13030). Kurt's comments make you ponder: Straight line versus in a turn "turning" are two very different physical phenomenons; turning has more g force involved and the attitude of the bike is much different due to suspension loading, rotational inertia about the c/l, frictional forces, etc. I view my pegs as rotational control devices, they help start the rotation into a turn and the counter steering helps control the rate of lean (gyroscopic precession forces). Once you've learned to optimize these two variables, that's when things get fun. You really learn this when riding dirt bikes on serious off camber turns going downhill and you have to weigh the inside peg big time. Min & co, I can free body diagram these things for you guys Sat, so you'll know what we're talking about. Once you understand the physics, riding is a ball.

[GPTECHMAN]

I dont think pegs have really anything to do with turn in.

that would be like standing your bike up once its on its kickstand by just pressing on the right peg...if the peg was longer then I think that they may have enough leverage to affect the turn in, but it just doesnt make too much sense to me

I feel that coming out of one turn in to another turn in the opposite direction is mainly initiated by a change in my body in relation to the bike, not on the peg. Im pretty light on the inside peg the more I think about it and I have more weight or pressure on the outside peg, is anyone doing the same thing?

I know that this thread came up along time ago on the old board...

[cbrsmurf]

Originally posted by GPTECHMAN
I dont think pegs have really anything to do with turn in.

that would be like standing your bike up once its on its kickstand by just pressing on the right peg...if the peg was longer then I think that they may have enough leverage to affect the turn in, but it just doesnt make too much sense to me

I feel that coming out of one turn in to another turn in the opposite direction is mainly initiated by a change in my body in relation to the bike, not on the peg. Im pretty light on the inside peg the more I think about it and I have more weight or pressure on the outside peg, is anyone doing the same thing?

I know that this thread came up along time ago on the old board...


Hmmm, but the contact with the motorcycle from your body happens mostly where your hands hold the clip-ons and where your feet contact your footpegs. I don't think weighting the peg makes much of a difference... but it feels to me like it still affects the bike a lil.

[blndweasel]

There's actually a section in my buddies "Sportriding Techniques" book that illustrates the principle quite well...

Three riders approach a turn.

Rider #1 uses countersteering AND weights the inside peg to turn in.

Rider #2 only uses countersteering to turn in.

Rider #3 (he's really experienced, be careful about trying this) only weighs his inside peg to turn in. His hands are not on the handlebars.

End result: Rider #1 produces the most turn in angle, and can therefore achieve a higher speed through the turn. Rider #2 has an average turn-approach angle. Rider #3 is in a considerably less favorable situation as far as the approaching turn goes... however simply by weighting his inside peg, he has achieved a lean angle and the bike has begun to turn in.

As far as I'm concerned, any time you turn in, you're going to achieve better stability by balancing the turning effort between your peg weighting and your countersteer. I'd say you never really want to weight your outside peg, unless you're making a slow-speed U-turn. It depends of course on the bike, on the riding position of the rider, and the level of skill of the rider. If you can effectively transfer a decent portion of your weight to the inside leg however, you will greatly enhance your turn in ability.

Peg weighting exercise: get yourself up against a wall, with your back to the wall... now sit down as if you are on an invisible chair. Your thighs should start to feel fatigued if you keep this up... but it simulates somewhat the muscle forces involved in the riding posture. Now lift one leg off the ground and see how long you can keep yourself from falling over. You should feel quite a bit of tension in the thigh you're standing on, especially right around the insertion point of your quadriceps at the knee joint.

The longer you can hold yourself on one flexed knee, the more experience and knowledge you probably have about inside peg weighting in turns. It can really hurt at first, especially depending on your size, but it will definitely improve your riding posture once you gain some strength.

the blonde weasel

[blndweasel]

After posting this yesterday, I was inspired to take half an hour to repair my Ninja (amazing what a difference in handling it makes when you replace your missing coil bracket bolts a.k.a. 3-4 missing upper engine mount bolts) and I went for a little test ride... all the while keeping in mind the peg weighting topic.

I practiced weighting the inside peg just on simple around-town right and left-handers, and wow, what a difference it makes. I'd never really consciously tested turning with and without peg weighting, and once I payed attention to what was going on, the effect was pretty dramatic.

If you are still a disbeliever, you should set yourself up in a test environment and try to see what I'm talking about. It's pretty incredible; moreso than I ever knew before.

the blonde weasel

[Philo]

We're talking about initial turn in, correct? Not mid turn?

I was under the impression that ideally your weight would be 100% on the OUTSIDE peg while mid-turn, not on the inside (near the ground) peg while turning.

Blonde Weasel, were you weighting the insde peg all the way through the turn or just at the turn in point???

[blndweasel]

Well I'm talking about weighting the peg all the way through the turn...

Basically think of it this way... The faster you go in a flat circle, the more lean angle you're gonna need because at some point due to centrifugal force, you're gonna get thrown in the direction opposite your point of rotation, (high side) or you're gonna fall down to the ground (low side). The faster you get going, the more necessary it becomes to transfer weight to the inside of the big circle you're drawing on the road. This is why riders move their bodies off the bike, in the process of getting a knee down, in order to change the center of the vehicle's gravity (including the rider) to the inside of the circle, and low to the ground (due to the shape of the tire).

Now... if you understand why moving weight towards the inside of a circle is important when trying to keep from falling off your bike, then it should become pretty obvious why you want to be transferring weight to your inside peg. Imagine you're trying to turn the bike left. Ideally, you'd want to move as much mass to the left side of the bike as possible... I mean, if you're hanging off the side of the bike, its gonna make things real easy. Now ask yourself... where is it that you are supporting your weight on the bike? The only place weight can be supported. On the peg. Imagine if you tried putting all your weight on the inside handlebar in a turn... you wouldn't enjoy the results! So the answer is the weight has to go to the peg, and it enhances your ability to maintain attitude towards the inside of the circle, regardless of speed.

Now, as to whether or not you apply weight to the pegs at any given speed... obviously if you're driving around town you can get by without hanging off the side of the bike. You can easily get by with just counter steering. But speaking from experience, handling improves greatly if you balance your steering input between countersteering the bars and changing your center of gravity by weighting the peg.

One of my favorite things to do on Sorrento Valley Blvd when I'm riding to work in the mornings is to warm up my tires a bit on the straightaways by simultaneously countersteering and using my weight on the pegs to essentially "swing the back end around". Once you get the hang of it, you'll get a much better feel for your rear wheel traction, not to mention much quicker times on the mountain.

I'll attach a diagram to explain:

[kc1717]

Originally posted by GPTECHMAN
I dont think pegs have really anything to do with turn in.

that would be like standing your bike up once its on its kickstand by just pressing on the right peg...if the peg was longer then I think that they may have enough leverage to affect the turn in, but it just doesnt make too much sense to me

I feel that coming out of one turn in to another turn in the opposite direction is mainly initiated by a change in my body in relation to the bike, not on the peg. Im pretty light on the inside peg the more I think about it and I have more weight or pressure on the outside peg, is anyone doing the same thing?

I know that this thread came up along time ago on the old board...


well i know for damn sure i could lift my bike off the kickstand and flip it over by just weighting the peg.

i use my peg weighting very carefully all the time now. the inside make you turn in faster, and the outside makes you turn in slower. now if you counter the slower turn in by counterstearing more, then you effectivly have the most traction. the inside peg makes the bike lean and puts the force outward and can cause the rear to slip, and you can control this by stomping on the outside peg.

What i, as a physicist, see is that you should put wieght on the inside peg to initiate turn in then press hard as you can on the outside to get as much traction as possible while leaned over.

McCoy 'the master of slides' has commented many times on how he used his outside peg to control the slides and gain rear end traction.

peg weighting makes a huge difference, and i have gotten into many arguments about it, but know for a fact that you will have higher levels of traction by weighting the outside peg, by physically using your strength to press, and you will turn in with greater speed by placing that pressure on the inside peg.

any reluctance for the bike to lean over because of the ouside peg weighting can easily be over came by counterstear, and like i said, you should start with inside weight to get it to lean then apply outside pressure to gain the highest levels of traction available

[cbrsmurf]

Originally posted by blndweasel
Well I'm talking about weighting the peg all the way through the turn...

Basically think of it this way... The faster you go in a flat circle, the more lean angle you're gonna need because at some point due to centrifugal force, you're gonna get thrown in the direction opposite your point of rotation, (high side) or you're gonna fall down to the ground (low side). The faster you get going, the more necessary it becomes to transfer weight to the inside of the big circle you're drawing on the road. This is why riders move their bodies off the bike, in the process of getting a knee down, in order to change the center of the vehicle's gravity (including the rider) to the inside of the circle, and low to the ground (due to the shape of the tire).

Now... if you understand why moving weight towards the inside of a circle is important when trying to keep from falling off your bike, then it should become pretty obvious why you want to be transferring weight to your inside peg. Imagine you're trying to turn the bike left. Ideally, you'd want to move as much mass to the left side of the bike as possible... I mean, if you're hanging off the side of the bike, its gonna make things real easy. Now ask yourself... where is it that you are supporting your weight on the bike? The only place weight can be supported. On the peg. Imagine if you tried putting all your weight on the inside handlebar in a turn... you wouldn't enjoy the results! So the answer is the weight has to go to the peg, and it enhances your ability to maintain attitude towards the inside of the circle, regardless of speed.

Now, as to whether or not you apply weight to the pegs at any given speed... obviously if you're driving around town you can get by without hanging off the side of the bike. You can easily get by with just counter steering. But speaking from experience, handling improves greatly if you balance your steering input between countersteering the bars and changing your center of gravity by weighting the peg.

One of my favorite things to do on Sorrento Valley Blvd when I'm riding to work in the mornings is to warm up my tires a bit on the straightaways by simultaneously countersteering and using my weight on the pegs to essentially "swing the back end around". Once you get the hang of it, you'll get a much better feel for your rear wheel traction, not to mention much quicker times on the mountain.

I'll attach a diagram to explain:

lol, beautiful drawing and spelling:clap:

my 3 yr old niece would be jealous:D

[Philo]

Originally posted by kc1717
well i know for damn sure i could lift my bike off the kickstand and flip it over by just weighting the peg.

i use my peg weighting very carefully all the time now. the inside make you turn in faster, and the outside makes you turn in slower. now if you counter the slower turn in by counterstearing more, then you effectivly have the most traction. the inside peg makes the bike lean and puts the force outward and can cause the rear to slip, and you can control this by stomping on the outside peg.

What i, as a physicist, see is that you should put wieght on the inside peg to initiate turn in then press hard as you can on the outside to get as much traction as possible while leaned over.

McCoy 'the master of slides' has commented many times on how he used his outside peg to control the slides and gain rear end traction.

peg weighting makes a huge difference, and i have gotten into many arguments about it, but know for a fact that you will have higher levels of traction by weighting the outside peg, by physically using your strength to press, and you will turn in with greater speed by placing that pressure on the inside peg.

any reluctance for the bike to lean over because of the ouside peg weighting can easily be over came by counterstear, and like i said, you should start with inside weight to get it to lean then apply outside pressure to gain the highest levels of traction available

That's the way I always understood it. Of course, I'm not at the point where I'm experimenting with that yet, skill level is much below that. I usually go from weight on both pegs to on the outside peg for the rest of the turn. Once I'm better, I can work on weighting the inside peg for a faster turn-in.

[kc1717]

Originally posted by Philo
That's the way I always understood it. Of course, I'm not at the point where I'm experimenting with that yet, skill level is much below that. I usually go from weight on both pegs to on the outside peg for the rest of the turn. Once I'm better, I can work on weighting the inside peg for a faster turn-in.

i dont ride hard enough at palomar to ever need faster turn in. if i took the mountain 5 mph faster in the turns then i could see the need to the extra inside input, but unless you are racing and trying to really stick the turn at the last second, then i see the need.


for me i just stay neutral, counterstear, and then heavy weight on the outside as i roll on the throttle.

i have yet to spin the rear tire this way, but if i stay on the inside peg, i can slide the back tire on almost every corner exit, which was fun for a while till i highsided, then it was all about stomping the outside peg.


i can not wait to get to the track and actually push it

[blndweasel]

True,

My input about peg weighting is most likely somewhat skewed due to the fact that I ride a bike that's considerably lighter and underpowered when compared to anything but itself or one of those sexxy MSF Honda 125's...

When my roommate got the FZR600 up to the mountain last week, he commented that it was surprisingly more effortless to seduce the bike into a lean, with much less attitude maintenance than compared to the Ninja 250.

Needless to say, I look forward to the day when my car's back on the road so that I can invest some money in a more exciting motorcycle :)

[Philo]

Originally posted by blndweasel
Needless to say, I look forward to the day when my car's back on the road so that I can invest some money in a more exciting motorcycle :)

And when that day shall come, the 250 must be given unto me. Or sold, or whatever. :D

[hans]

I've never been concerned with which peg I'm weighting the most......I weight them both, I don't remember which one gets more weight. Alot of it is gonna depend on your body size, as well as the shape of your bike. All I do is lock my outside knee against the tank, lock my outside heel against the heel guard, brace my outside forearm against the tank, move my butt over, and stick my knee out