Warming Tires

[badiozam]

So I've always heard one of those big things to watch out for is to warm up your tires. So I'm constantly paranoid now when I'm coming around a corner whether my tires are warm enough or not for me to take it as aggressively. Mind you, I've never gone down because of overleaning, but (or because) it's still in the back of my head cuz I've heard a bunch of experienced riders say they've gone done cuz their tires weren't hot...

So when is a tire warm enough and what does that mean? Does it mean that the outside edges of the tire have to be warm on the surface? Does it mean that the air inside the tire must be warm so that it gives an even distribution (I know when it's cold, the air sinks to the bottom and it takes a few minutes for the air to become the same temp throughout the tire). Also, if I go n a straightaway the outer edges of the tire will cool down I imagine pretty fast so does that mean I have to warm them up again? Will take any advice!

[melonheadR6]

^ good questions! i want to know too ^

oh man i had a cold tire scare like 1.5months ago. i was getting into a fairly sharp left, i was taking it easy but my rear slipped out.

bent my shifter and scuffed up my shoes but didnt go down...

[shaggy]

on street tires you really don't have to worry about warming them up. They are made to work well at all temperatures.

As for race slicks and DOT race tires(208gp, rensports...) it is important to allow the tires to warm up before riding aggressively. Contrary to your belief the best way to warm a tire is actually to ride in a straight line and accelerate/brake hard. Tires are heated up because of the flexing of the internal components of a tire. Once heated up the tire is uniformly warm throughout. If the center is warm the edges are warm also (some tracks like willow heat the right edge more due to all the right hand turns, but the whole tire is up to temp). A rule of thumb is to do a couple laps at the track or for the street a good 5-10 minutes of semi aggressive riding will get most tires up to good temps. Feel them, if they are warm, your good, if not keep riding...

[Bart]

on street tires you really don't have to worry about warming them up. They are made to work well at all temperatures.

As for race slicks and DOT race tires(208gp, rensports...) it is important to allow the tires to warm up before riding aggressively. Contrary to your belief the best way to warm a tire is actually to ride in a straight line and accelerate/brake hard. Tires are heated up because of the flexing of the internal components of a tire. Once heated up the tire is uniformly warm throughout. If the center is warm the edges are warm also (some tracks like willow heat the right edge more due to all the right hand turns, but the whole tire is up to temp). A rule of thumb is to do a couple laps at the track or for the street a good 5-10 minutes of semi aggressive riding will get most tires up to good temps. Feel them, if they are warm, your good, if not keep riding...

+1

Just to add, accelerating/braking hard is more effective at heating up the tires than the swerving side-to-side method I see people doing.

[melonheadR6]

+1

Just to add, accelerating/braking hard is more effective at heating up the tires than the swerving side-to-side method I see people doing.

INTERESTING........ THANKS GUYS!

[Fornstar]

I swerve side to side to clean the tires off. Dirt and pebbles, things like that.

[badiozam]

Wow, thanks for the info Shaggy. So question for you, does the outside temperature affect the tires then? So for example, if it's freezing and I'm riding fast, I get cold, but my tires are warm uniformly, is that right?

[hypersport]

Remember swerving side to side only cleans the tires from Dirt and Pebbles but ride time is essentially the best for warming the tires. Also, If you are sweating cause it's hott doesn't mean your tires are... ~just keep that in mind when it is cold out there.

I swerve side to side to clean the tires off. Dirt and pebbles, things like that.

[GPTECHMAN]

Wow, thanks for the info Shaggy. So question for you, does the outside temperature affect the tires then? So for example, if it's freezing and I'm riding fast, I get cold, but my tires are warm uniformly, is that right?

Your tires(race, street, slicks with tire warmers) can be at optimal temp, but if the road is cold, it aint gonna stick, capeesh :rockon:

If it's cold, ride slow. Is there any reason to ride fast when its freezing out?
IF you are going at fast speeds, lets say the highway...its cold, late at night or early in the morning, and you decide to take this 20mph exit fast, cause you've just been hauling in a straight line, most likely yours tires are still gonna be cold on the sides when you lean it over...voila, lowside.

[godofspeed]

And dont ride tires that have been heat cycled a bunch of time. I speak from experience.

[badiozam]

And dont ride tires that have been heat cycled a bunch of time. I speak from experience.
Oh... what do you mean? Don't you heat cycle your tires everytime you go riding and then stop and ride again the next day?

[godofspeed]

Oh... what do you mean? Don't you heat cycle your tires everytime you go riding and then stop and ride again the next day?


im talking about dot race tires. after they get heat cycled , different heat cycles for differnt brands , they will harden and they will lose there ability to stick.

[shichyea]

nah... roda's speaking more about race tires. not so much a concern with reg tires. race tires need to get really hot for them to become sticky and they have a more finite number of times they can be brought up to temp before they stop gettin so gummy.

so no... you really dont heat cycle your tires every time you go riding... you pretty much have to have them smokin (lol) to be a cycle..

[shichyea]

ahhh! not only does roda ride faster but he types faster than me too..

[badiozam]

ahhh! not only does roda ride faster but he types faster than me too..
Got it, so I take it that's not him in his signature with the nunchucks?

[JesseJames]

Oh thats him alright...showin his kung fu skill.

:bowdown:

[godofspeed]

Oh thats him alright...showin his kung fu skill.

:bowdown:

Dont mess with me mike, I will do some crouchting tiger on your A$$ :rifle:

[GPTECHMAN]

Got it, so I take it that's not him in his signature with the nunchucks?
Dont chu mean NUMCHUCKS :ha:

[badiozam]

Dont chu mean NUMCHUCKS :ha:
LOL! That was a tight movie... there's not enough room in my locker for my numchucks.

[RubberSydeDown]

didn't wanna repost an old thread... but i found this article.
good food for thought.
for all u weavers out there....


http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/feb00/weave.htm

[Kurt'sSV]

How long does it take to warm up the tires? 1 lap when it's race time. Once that green flag dropps, my tires are warm enough.

[TreAdidas]

Is there any reason to ride fast when its freezing out?.

Streets... 12-12-03

::laughs:: Just ask that guy that wadded his brand new R6 in turn three on the first lap of the first session of the day after Dustin just got done preaching about warming your shizz up.

[MrCrashRR]

[QUOTE=GPTECHMAN]Your tires(race, street, slicks with tire warmers) can be at optimal temp, but if the road is cold, it aint gonna stick, capeesh :rockon:

QUOTE]


Im curious to see the graph of asphalts coefficient of friction verses temperature. Rubber and silicone sure have a steep graph, but i have a hard time thinking the uf of the asphalt would change drastically.

i would think on cold pavement that you would loose heat, or never reach temperature ,..but i think if your tires are baked on warmers, and the track is dry but cold, mathematically you should be fine.

[GPTECHMAN]

[QUOTE=GPTECHMAN]Your tires(race, street, slicks with tire warmers) can be at optimal temp, but if the road is cold, it aint gonna stick, capeesh :rockon:

QUOTE]


Im curious to see the graph of asphalts coefficient of friction verses temperature. Rubber and silicone sure have a steep graph, but i have a hard time thinking the uf of the asphalt would change drastically.

i would think on cold pavement that you would loose heat, or never reach temperature ,..but i think if your tires are baked on warmers, and the track is dry but cold, mathematically you should be fine.
not sure if I would test out your theory....at least not on that cbr1000RR:nerd:

[TreAdidas]

Im curious to see the graph of asphalts coefficient of friction verses temperature. Rubber and silicone sure have a steep graph, but i have a hard time thinking the uf of the asphalt would change drastically.

i would think on cold pavement that you would loose heat, or never reach temperature ,..but i think if your tires are baked on warmers, and the track is dry but cold, mathematically you should be fine.

Ya see if you take the hypotenuse of the hyperbola and set that equal to the slope .... you get sigma... an dif you take sigma times the width of the tread pattern... you get X and if X is less than the centrifugal force applied by the motor which we'll call Y you eat sh!t...

Ahhh what do I know http://www.treadidas.com/smilies/bunnycake.gif

[MrCrashRR]

[QUOTE=MrCrashRR]
not sure if I would test out your theory....at least not on that cbr1000RR:nerd:


Yeah true,....

ill see if i can get some time to research this a bit.


and if that is a common phenomenon, ( crashing on a cold track with 180 degree tires, then i think it would directly go down to the mating surface, and the ability of the ground to pull heat from the tires and (flash cool ) the surface of the tire to less than 180 causing the uf to drop.


either way, be careful.

[cbrsmurf]

[QUOTE=GPTECHMAN]


Yeah true,....

ill see if i can get some time to research this a bit.


and if that is a common phenomenon, ( crashing on a cold track with 180 degree tires, then i think it would directly go down to the mating surface, and the ability of the ground to pull heat from the tires and (flash cool ) the surface of the tire to less than 180 causing the uf to drop.


either way, be careful.

Does the coefficient of friction of the road itself affected by changes in temperature? (i know, :nerd: but, really). Or does it just depend on the temperature and stickiness of the tire?

[GPTECHMAN]

[QUOTE=MrCrashRR]

Does the coefficient of friction of the road itself affected by changes in temperature? (i know, :nerd: but, really). Or does it just depend on the temperature and stickiness of the tire?
I would think that the temperature of the track would not effect the coefficient of friction for asphalt, but the track temp would determine the characteristics of the rubber. The rubber and silica's chemical composition change according to temp and those darn heat cycles. I have an old article that I might be able to dig up that talks about the actual chemistry behind the tires, chemical bonding and compostion shifts.

Should've been a chemist:nerd:

[pulse]

i think you guys are getting a bit more technical than necessary. as far as track riding i think there are just a few things to consider for warming your tires. first, even if you are on tire warmer, take at least one lap before you go full pace...it gets you ready and your tires ready. another thing to look at is, is it the first session on the day or is the track up to temp yet, if not then take 2-3 laps and warm the tires and let the track get a bit of heat in it. you can feel when your tires are up to temp, it is hard to explain but for anyone that has run tire warmers, your bike feels different taking off on a first lap after having warmers on compared to tires being cold. you have to think, at willow we get one warm up lap and then grid up and go balls out, many people dont have warmers and even when it was starting to snow last november at willow in the morning guys were running 1:24's on DOT race tires. so basically give your self one or two laps and you are good to go, pretty simple.

[Kurt'sSV]

Yeah, you engineering geeks are thinking about this too much. Just ride your bike. I was one of the guys who raced in the snow flurries last November. The track was cold, the air was cold, but my tires stuck fine. I was probably only running 1:37 or 8 out there, though, but still got 6th.

[MrCrashRR]

and im a physics geek.....

[Dissident]

I would expect the temperature of the track both affects how long it takes to warm up the tires, and how sticky the asphault itself it...I knwo those tar snakes sure feel slipperier when it is hot out then when it's moderate...