think its time for a new tire:

[Amish Marauder]

well every time I ride my front end spends more time sliding then actually sticking to the road...I wanted to get my money out of this crap D207 and I did now. this past weekend my front end was sliding way more and after riding Palomar on Sun I found that I could hardly lean around corners without my front end getting wobbly and sliding. so no more rides till I get a new tire.
so here is my D207 at its best, pic taken right after the ride up at Palomar:

[Amish Marauder]

and another:

[cbrsmurf]

nice work

are those plain ol 207s?

[Amish Marauder]

Originally posted by cbrsmurf
nice work

are those plain ol 207s?

the front is, the rear is a new BT020 (which Im pleased to say grips great for a sport/tourer)

[deathblow]

Originally posted by Amish Marauder
the front is, the rear is a new BT020 (which Im pleased to say grips great for a sport/tourer)

Wow, I've never been comfortable with mixing/matching tires, but if it works for you. What tires are you going to next? There are alot of good tires out there now :).

[Amish Marauder]

Originally posted by deathblow
Wow, I've never been comfortable with mixing/matching tires, but if it works for you. What tires are you going to next? There are alot of good tires out there now :).

actually Im quite happy with the Batlax BT020 in the rear so Im buying the same for the front. if it grips half as well as the BT020 in the rear then I will be stoked. Hell Im used to sliding around corners now anyway:eek: I need a sport/tour tire due to driving my bike to work and such. these Batlax tires run a dual compound which seems to be working great. they really grip well.

as for running two different tires on a bike, with todays tires it really doesn't hurt a damn thing. trust me I do it all the time and never had a problem. Ive used sport/tour in the rear and sport up front in the past on my other ninja and it worked great. ask any shop and they will tell ya that its ok.

[GPTECHMAN]

Originally posted by Amish Marauder


as for running two different tires on a bike, with todays tires it really doesn't hurt a damn thing. trust me I do it all the time and never had a problem.

Famous last words....

Originally posted by Amish Marauder


Ive used sport/tour in the rear and sport up front in the past on my other ninja and it worked great. ask any shop and they will tell ya that its ok.

um Im calling a big BS on this one....try ROB(manager) at cycle gear on convoy, not that that guy knows one thing about what he's talking about, but I dare you to tell him that.

yeah whatever works for you I guess. The only combo I would consider is the BT010 front and the BT020 rear. Thats me

amish dont take any offense to this I am just very opinionated about this crap, obviosly anything can work, up to a certain level of skill, and demand in performance, but Im not sure those racers are taking a dunlop here and a metzeler there and throwing them on..........

[Amish Marauder]

Originally posted by GPTECHMAN
Famous last words....



um Im calling a big BS on this one....try ROB(manager) at cycle gear on convoy, not that that guy knows one thing about what he's talking about, but I dare you to tell him that.

yeah whatever works for you I guess. The only combo I would consider is the BT010 front and the BT020 rear. Thats me

amish dont take any offense to this I am just very opinionated about this crap, obviosly anything can work, up to a certain level of skill, and demand in performance, but Im not sure those racers are taking a dunlop here and a metzeler there and throwing them on..........

no offence taken, to each his own. I will say this though, its not BS. I asked a few different shops in the past if it would be dangerous and every shop I talked to said that they prefer to run the same make front and back but its not dangerous to run two different tires on a bike. why would they lie to me and install the different tires? I would think that could be a lawsuit.
one of the reasons for not running two differnent tires back in the day was that you had Radial tires and non-radial tires. you NEVER want to mix those. but radial tires can be mixed. most people wont do this and Im not saying its better to mix, and I usually don't mix, but I have in the past, and right now as well.
I never said I would rec. running two differen't tires on the track. Its a race track man, this is the street. I wouldn't bother asking any "Racer" what he thought cuz I know that he wouldn't mix on the track, or any where else most likely. I'm no racer, and I'm not trying to be one. Hey in the end I prefer to run the same make front and back myself, but there have been times when I didn't. this past time I needed a rear tire, I was running D207's and knew i wanted something better. My front tire was still like new though so I wanted to get my money out of it. I switched the rear to the Batlax and when i get my new front it will be switched to the Batlax as well. this was just temporary.:D

[deathblow]

I think just as long as you know your limits and the limits of your bike, you're cool. If you're comfortable with mixing tires and can ride safely on them, them more power to you. But when you do start pushing those limits, I think it is just a safer bet to go with tires that were engineered and designed to work together.

[GPTECHMAN]

thats cool...amish, the only reason that the stores would say that its ok is if they were going to lose a sell. thats my honest opinion...they usually say whatever it takes to get you to buy, wheteher it be mixmatched cheapy tires....

hey I would do the same thing, Im just too paranoid about my tires, that I don' t even want it to be an issue when I ride...

[Amish Marauder]

Originally posted by deathblow
I think just as long as you know your limits and the limits of your bike, you're cool. If you're comfortable with mixing tires and can ride safely on them, them more power to you. But when you do start pushing those limits, I think it is just a safer bet to go with tires that were engineered and designed to work together.

Agreed


Originally posted by GPTECHMAN
thats cool...amish, the only reason that the stores would say that its ok is if they were going to lose a sell. thats my honest opinion...they usually say whatever it takes to get you to buy, wheteher it be mixmatched cheapy tires....

hey I would do the same thing, Im just too paranoid about my tires, that I don' t even want it to be an issue when I ride...


I can understand that.

[GPTECHMAN]

NOW lets get you some new rubbah and ride :)

[Arnold_R1]

Sorry if I missed the whole debate, but Chuck, that tire should of been replaced a long time ago. :eek: You and JohnnyD make sure you guys get your money's worth when it comes to tires. :|

[Bryant]

Originally posted by Amish Marauder
well every time I ride my front end spends more time sliding then actually sticking to the road...I wanted to get my money out of this crap D207 and I did now. this past weekend my front end was sliding way more and after riding Palomar on Sun I found that I could hardly lean around corners without my front end getting wobbly and sliding. so no more rides till I get a new tire.
so here is my D207 at its best, pic taken right after the ride up at Palomar:

Your front tire looks pretty worn down about an inch within the space between the center of the tire to the edge. At the last half inch of your tire... your rubber looks pretty much unused and may have "hardened" or perhaps is a bit more slick than the strip just above it so perhaps that is why your tire is sliding around a bit.

Also, it almost looks like that is a D207GP front in that photo?

Anyway, your front looks pretty shot and needs replacing pretty quick. There ain't much rubbah left on that thing... the wear pattern looks very much like a how most "commuter miles" would wear down a sport tire.

[cbrsmurf]

Can anyone prove that mixing different tire is detrimental? If they're both the same profile/roundness and the tire compound is about the same hardness along with the tread depth, what is the difference?

[CjrJAM]

Originally posted by deathblow
But when you do start pushing those limits, I think it is just a safer bet to go with tires that were engineered and designed to work together.
Can anyone prove that mixing different tire is detrimental? If they're both the same profile/roundness and the tire compound is about the same hardness along with the tread depth, what is the difference?
I agree with this philosophy!

[Bryant]

Originally posted by cbrsmurf
Can anyone prove that mixing different tire is detrimental? If they're both the same profile/roundness and the tire compound is about the same hardness along with the tread depth, what is the difference?

hiya smurfman,

it's not really that bad unless u plan on racing with them or riding pretty hard on canyon roads, etc.... every tire company designed their front and rear tires as a set and I'm sure they have a lot of good reason for that.

The main issue that I know of is high-speed stability of these tires... from what i understand, if you have a front and rear tire both with completely different tread designs... it could adversely affect your high-speed stability.

Anyway, no two tires are ever made exactly the same... especially from one manufacturer to another. Rule of thumb is it is always best to have the same set on your bike.

Consider your sportbike like a Ferrari. You probably can't expect that installing a bridgestone rear right side tire and a Pirelli rear left side tire and expect the car to handle well or predictably...

Bottom line, for normal street riding, this shouldn't really matter too much. For performance riding and racing, you really don't want to be mixing your tires up.

[Amish Marauder]

Originally posted by Arnold_R1
Sorry if I missed the whole debate, but Chuck, that tire should of been replaced a long time ago. :eek: You and JohnnyD make sure you guys get your money's worth when it comes to tires. :|

lol, the tire looked almost new a month ago. Palomar did this. and yes I like to get my money out of a tire.

[Amish Marauder]

Originally posted by Bodmaster
Your front tire looks pretty worn down about an inch within the space between the center of the tire to the edge. At the last half inch of your tire... your rubber looks pretty much unused and may have "hardened" or perhaps is a bit more slick than the strip just above it so perhaps that is why your tire is sliding around a bit.

Also, it almost looks like that is a D207GP front in that photo?

Anyway, your front looks pretty shot and needs replacing pretty quick. There ain't much rubbah left on that thing... the wear pattern looks very much like a how most "commuter miles" would wear down a sport tire.


ok let me xplain why the tire looks like that. I bought this bike about 2 months ago. it it had both original D207 tires on it from the factory. the front tire was hard as a rock. I replaced the rear, but the front was like new so I wanted to get some miles out of it before buying a new one. the rubber is so hard that when i started riding up at palomar the tires would slide across the road, causing the rubber to be pulled from the top of the tire to the side causing the build up that you see there, every time i ride the mountain this would happen, causing the tire to wear badly half way up the side of the tire. at first I could get the bike leaned over good, having just a 1/2 inch chicken strip, but even then the tire would slide out so I couldn't push the lean much further. as time went on it got harder and harder to lean hard into corners, and now instead of pusshing all that rubber to the edge, its only getting pushed about 1 inch from the edge.trust me, all that rubber you see bunched up is actually from the "bald" part of the tire. get what Im saying? think Im explaining it properly. Im not kidding when i say the tire looked brand new a month ago.

[Arnold_R1]

Looks like our other Ninja :ninja: Counterpart, Mr Ho-in-uno, , Mr I Retired from Palomar-Brenden, likes to mix and match tires too. :jackoff:

http://www.socalsportbikes.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=10535

[Amish Marauder]

like i said, mixing doesn't hurt any thing, but in the end its up to the rider.

[Bryant]

Originally posted by Amish Marauder
ok let me xplain why the tire looks like that. I bought this bike about 2 months ago. it it had both original D207 tires on it from the factory. the front tire was hard as a rock. I replaced the rear, but the front was like new so I wanted to get some miles out of it before buying a new one. the rubber is so hard that when i started riding up at palomar the tires would slide across the road, causing the rubber to be pulled from the top of the tire to the side causing the build up that you see there, every time i ride the mountain this would happen, causing the tire to wear badly half way up the side of the tire. at first I could get the bike leaned over good, having just a 1/2 inch chicken strip, but even then the tire would slide out so I couldn't push the lean much further. as time went on it got harder and harder to lean hard into corners, and now instead of pusshing all that rubber to the edge, its only getting pushed about 1 inch from the edge.trust me, all that rubber you see bunched up is actually from the "bald" part of the tire. get what Im saying? think Im explaining it properly. Im not kidding when i say the tire looked brand new a month ago.

Ok. Coo. :headbang: I actually had a 1998 GSXR750 that was shod from the factory with some pretty crappy D207ZRs too... but I replaced them with new D207ZR's from the shelf and the difference was practically night and day. I didn' t know you were running the stock OG tires that came with your bike... this should probably go in another thread but the tires they install on your bike from the showroom floor aren't really the best batch of tires they could find. Anyway, I've never had problems with D207ZR's except for the ones that came on my bike from the factory. D207ZR's used to be da sh*t back then... no one could say enough good things about them.

[Bryant]

BTW: Is your front a D207ZR or GP? the ZR usually has much wider grooves than the one I saw in your photo.

[Amish Marauder]

GP

[Bryant]

Originally posted by Amish Marauder
GP

Ok.. just so you know, D207GP tires do not come straight "from the factory" as you said. Those are the race compound versions of the 207 line and are generally much softer than stock D207ZR's. They are not designed for durability for street riding.. but rather max performance under racing conditions.

It is hard to believe that this tire "sux" that bad in terms of grip... and I am thinking your grip issues is a result of the tire being worn past its replacement mark. I've had no problems running on D207GP's at 130mph + at full lean. And yes, Palomar's south grade (aka 'tight side') does wonders to shred all sorts of tires.. especially soft race compound tires like that GP you showed us in those pics. The "shredded" appearance on your front could also be a result of poor suspension setup as well. If you still have that tire on your bike, could you do me a favor and check your front tire pressure and post it here as well? Thanks.

Hope this helps... I just wanted you to have as much information as possible so you can make the best possible decisions for yourself.

[dre_2k2_f4i]

Okay, this is a long-ass thread that I'm going to have to take some time to read, but just to get my experience in:

I have mismatched tires since I got a flat on my stock rear. From that point, I have run a BT020 rear and D208 ZR front (I was going to do the infamouse BT020 rear/ BT 010 front, but they didn't have a front tire my size when it came to change). But then again, I am not much of a canyon rider. I mean, I ride canyons, but not to the point where my tires booger up. I keep low tire pressures (30/32). I get around 8,000 miles out of my BT 020 rear (I change it out once it is about to or has just barely hit the wear marker). My front tire varies. Last time I changed it out early because I was going to a track day. In fact, that was the 12/12 track day. Now, going on the track with this setup was not satisfactory. As I was progressively getting faster throughout the day (as all faded-textile-donning riders do), my confidence in my tires decreased. I even went with a lower pressure in the rear for more grip, but I still managed to *just barely* slide the rear out of the bowl (turn 8). I backed off from there because I am not yet used to sliding around.

I found a great deal on D208's, so I am stocked up with 2 sets of those right now. I will mount and unmount the front and rear at the same time on the next two changes. If I do not have an FZ6 by the time I need to change tires again, I may go with the BT020 rear/ BT010 front (or D208) combination again.

As was mentioned in another thread: it really matters what suits your riding. I know of racers that have reversed the direction of their tires and had success with them -- doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it is possible. Many things are possible. I am just learning as I go along, and trying to pick up some nuggets from you guys.

[Amish Marauder]

Originally posted by Bodmaster
Ok.. just so you know, D207GP tires do not come straight "from the factory" as you said. Those are the race compound versions of the 207 line and are generally much softer than stock D207ZR's. They are not designed for durability for street riding.. but rather max performance under racing conditions.

It is hard to believe that this tire "sux" that bad in terms of grip... and I am thinking your grip issues is a result of the tire being worn past its replacement mark. I've had no problems running on D207GP's at 130mph + at full lean. And yes, Palomar's south grade (aka 'tight side') does wonders to shred all sorts of tires.. especially soft race compound tires like that GP you showed us in those pics. The "shredded" appearance on your front could also be a result of poor suspension setup as well. If you still have that tire on your bike, could you do me a favor and check your front tire pressure and post it here as well? Thanks.

Hope this helps... I just wanted you to have as much information as possible so you can make the best possible decisions for yourself.

when i bought my bike i was told they had been on the bike since day one. I took that for meaning "the Factory" either way, the tire was on this bike for 2 to 3 years and the bike sat out side for over a year with no riding at all. the tire was NOT soft. it was hard as a rock. the first time i took it to Palomar my front end was sliding, infact my rear was too, and the rear was a GP as well. i bought my BT020 for the rear and my Rear has not slipped once since. so it would seem that weather and no-use took its toll on these GP's and thats why they suck so bad. thats fair to say i think.

P.S. oh yeah like I said, the tire looked like new when i bought the bike and it was slipping then, along with the rear.

[pulse]

i actually heard of people that were running 208gp front tires with either SC or RS rear tires. the reason being the SC and RS last longer as a rear tire than the 208 gp and the 208 gp front tire turns in faster than the SC or RS front tire.....so they run 208gp front and RS or SC rear. hear it actually works well, for street riding anyway. but i have not tried it.

[Bryant]

AMISH: Ah ok.. now that makes sense. So from what you said above, i think the whole tire being "NOT soft" is not really the fault of the tire as you said. Any tire would get pretty hard (eew.. sounds nasty) sitting outside for such extended periods of time.

Anyway, those Bridgestones have come a long way since the BT50 days. ;p They are one of my favorite brand of street tires now... fell in love with them when they came out with the BT56SS model. I think you can still get Bridgestones for pretty cheap compared to competing brands too.

[Bryant]

Originally posted by pulse
i actually heard of people that were running 208gp front tires with either SC or RS rear tires. the reason being the SC and RS last longer as a rear tire than the 208 gp and the 208 gp front tire turns in faster than the SC or RS front tire.....so they run 208gp front and RS or SC rear. hear it actually works well, for street riding anyway. but i have not tried it.

Yeah.. this type of thing was pretty popular several years ago too with the Dunlop Race front and Street rear combo. I know several folks, including myself, who tried running a D207GP* front and D207ZR rear and never really had much of a problem. we always wanted the stickiest front tire we could get and a rear tire that would last a bit longer too. Since the groove pattern was very similar on both tires, this was a widely accepted and recommended alternative to mixing and matching different brands of tires.

[TreAdidas]

Originally posted by Arnold_R1
Sorry if I missed the whole debate, but Chuck, that tire should of been replaced a long time ago. :eek: You and JohnnyD make sure you guys get your money's worth when it comes to tires. :|

are you talking to me? Or is there another Chuck on this?

[11A-ABN]

Originally posted by Amish Marauder
he rubber is so hard that when i started riding up at palomar the tires would slide across the road, causing the rubber to be pulled from the top of the tire to the side causing the build up that you see there

Explain to me this part stated above... How does a tire sliding cause the rubber from the top of the tire down to the side, unless you're at 1/20th of a lean and sliding for a long long time?

The shred pattern on your tire looks like you were at about 1/2 of a lean. And for one to slide and shred that much equally around the tire, one would have to slide a whole lot, and I mean A LOT of sliding both left and right & entire revolution repeatedly, for the tires to be equally shredded that much all around, as yours seems to be. But I can say that you must be pretty skillful if you slide that much and still haven't crashed. Especially front tire pushing is another story from a rear sliding. I say because I've been on tracks a few times, I never liked sliding, and it was my experience that it's pretty hard to really knowingly control a slide, since things happen pretty fast. May be others have different (or similar) experiences.

In addition to riding style/speed, tire shredding also has a lot to suspension set up. If your suspension is not set up in accordance to your weight, riding style, etc., your tires will experience more shredding then if your had a good suspension set up. There are other technical set ups you can play around with, but I leave those at Speed channel (& MotoGP on game consoles).

If you have had no problem mixing tires, in relation to your riding style/speed/etc., then my all means, whatever you see fit. I'm sure it won't be an issue for street riding, but I cannot say about any riding faster than that, since no one mixes up tires at races(club or national), of course because you can't have 2 sponsors of the same item (can't get money from both, you'll end up getting paid by neither).

[Amish Marauder]

Originally posted by TreAdidas
are you talking to me? Or is there another Chuck on this?

He's talking to me. I'm the other Chuck:D

[Amish Marauder]

11A-ABN:

lol I was waiting for someone to ask me that. I knew when typing it out that it didn't make much sence but its hard to explain. all I know is the rubber is being pushed to the edge. and when I first got the bike i was leaning pretty far, (not dragging knee) but close to it. but as the tire worsened i couldn't lean quite as far and just this past weekend I could hardly lean at all so over the past month the chicken strip has gotten wider and wider.

[Bryant]

Originally posted by 11A-ABN

since no one mixes up tires at races(club or national), of course because you can't have 2 sponsors of the same item (can't get money from both, you'll end up getting paid by neither).

Nice.. i totally forgot about that point too. :) Thanks!

[TreAdidas]

Originally posted by Amish Marauder
He's talking to me. I'm the other Chuck:D

Oh oh oh ... right on... :) howdy Chuck!


ok ARNOLD SPECIFY THE CHUCKS... or I'll just go by CHuckie to keep this shizzle straight