Trail Braking 101

[adobo]

Ok i've kinda been working on my trail braking... although i'm not really sure what the hell i'm doing... basically I do my hard braking just before i turn in, as i turn in i am still applying brakes, but a lot lighter... As i approach the apex I roll on the throttle ever so smoothly, then after the apex i let the throttle out more and more until i straighten.

I haven't performed this technique at extreme lean angles yet... I'm saving that for the track, mostly i've been doing this making my daily turns onto streets around town.

please share. :cheers:

[maestro]

i pretty much do it the same way...except for the ever so smoothly part...still working on my entry speed.

[Termin8r]

Turning upsets the stability of the bike already, so brake before you turn and never during. You want to roll off the throttle at the point of turning your bike, and begin rolling on smoothly as soon as possible after that. Leaving the braking in turns for those who race.

[Robert]

The brakes are my friend, I use mine alot, even at a full lean, If I am to hot at full lean and I need to scrub off speed and don't want the bike to stand up I use the rear brake"Without Rolling off The Throttle", This keeps the wheel from locking up, and usually slows me down eneough to make it through, anyone else do this?

[vrooom]

ive done the same as you robert but only a few times and i dont feel uncomfortable at all.. :thumbsup:

[pulse]

Ok i've kinda been working on my trail braking... although i'm not really sure what the hell i'm doing... basically I do my hard braking just before i turn in, as i turn in i am still applying brakes, but a lot lighter... As i approach the apex I roll on the throttle ever so smoothly, then after the apex i let the throttle out more and more until i straighten.

I haven't performed this technique at extreme lean angles yet... I'm saving that for the track, mostly i've been doing this making my daily turns onto streets around town.

please share. :cheers:


yeah i do basically the same as you are doing. on tight, slow corners coming off straights or high speeds, i like to use the heavy braking to help turn in the bike becasue the shortened wheel base under hard braking makes the bike turn in fast. then like you said, the braking becomes lighter and lighter as you approch the apex of the turn or to the point you are first able to get on the throttle and thne roll on through the corner. like stated above, doing all your braking while striaght up and down is another style of riding. some like to trail brake and some like to get all the braking done early to get on the throttle.

[adobo]

Turning upsets the stability of the bike already, so brake before you turn and never during. You want to roll off the throttle at the point of turning your bike, and begin rolling on smoothly as soon as possible after that. Leaving the braking in turns for those who race.


What's wrong with practicing trail braking even though i'm not racing? What if i want to get to that level of riding?

[nyburner]

...the shortened wheel base under hard braking makes the bike turn in fast.

Trail braking gives you better traction at turn in because it loads the front suspension, it doesn't really change the geometric dimensions of your bike [wow, that sounded really nerdy]. Now if you had a really raked out front end, hard braking might make a difference in your wheelbase, but then you'd be riding a custom "chopper".

Trail braking is a VERY advanced racing technique, not for use on the street. It's dangerous enough out there, be focused on that SUV making a right on red w/out looking or signaling, not on how fast you can take this left hand turn, nah'mean?

[Termin8r]

What's wrong with practicing trail braking even though i'm not racing? What if i want to get to that level of riding?

IMHO, learn to turn without them first. Trail braking is something for more advanced riders as some here have already pointed out. I'm not saying you can't strive toward riding at that level, but again, if you can master turning without trail braking first, you can improve more important things like throttle control, quick turning, etc. A lot of what I learned at superbike school was that it's easier to learn things sequentially...not all at the same time. That's why his first drill of the day involve riding around the track in 4th gear with no brakes. You get to really work on throttle control, which is far more important than trail braking. As a matter of fact, when some people couldn't handle the drill, they not only pointed out how important it is not to brake but not to do so beyond initiating your turn and to leave the rear brakes alone alltogether. Personally, I think it best to be smooth than fancy. Once again, this is IMHO. Ride safe.

[adobo]

IMHO, learn to turn without them first. Trail braking is something for more advanced riders as some here have already pointed out. I'm not saying you can't strive toward riding at that level, but again, if you can master turning without trail braking first, you can improve more important things like throttle control, quick turning, etc. A lot of what I learned at superbike school was that it's easier to learn things sequentially...not all at the same time. That's why his first drill of the day involve riding around the track in 4th gear with no brakes. You get to really work on throttle control, which is far more important than trail braking. As a matter of fact, when some people couldn't handle the drill, they not only pointed out how important it is not to brake but not to do so beyond initiating your turn and to leave the rear brakes alone alltogether. Personally, I think it best to be smooth than fancy. Once again, this is IMHO. Ride safe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not skipping steps here... I have learned to turn by braking initially, then turning in, then applying smooth throttle.

During my track sessions I rarely used the brake (only after the straight) through the rest of the corners it was all throttle control. when i got faster, i had to start braking before turns (with all braking done vertical)

Being said that, I want to practice turning in while on the brakes, I think my throttle control and front brake feel is mature enough. I never NEVER use the rear brake on the track... only time i ever use it is at stoplights when i want to take my hands off the handlebars and chillax for a bit.

on the street my trail braking is done on very moderate turns, I'm barely even leaned over, i'm just trying to get the feel and technique down. When i get to the track I want to practice it more at higher lean angles.

Like someone stated earlier, it does load the front end, so i will take it gradually so as to not wash out the front tire and lowslide. it's easily preventable by applying a little throttle and shifting some weight to the rear (right? as long as you aren't running too hot into the turn in?)

[zx6racer]

The brakes are my friend, I use mine alot, even at a full lean, If I am to hot at full lean and I need to scrub off speed and don't want the bike to stand up I use the rear brake"Without Rolling off The Throttle", This keeps the wheel from locking up, and usually slows me down eneough to make it through, anyone else do this?

:thumbsup: +1 only way to scrub speed safely on or off the track!!!! and bro, your gonna get alot of "advice" from people on this board, you gotta take it with a grain of salt and extract only what ya need from the responses. (no one get pissed now) but alot of people are gonna tell you not to do this or not to do that because it's over you "level" or they don't agree with that particular thing! however the only way you or anyone else is ever gonna get better,faster, smoother, or more comfortable at speed is through pactice and or trial and error. as long as you except the risk and know that it is there, shet man practice anything you want ie: trailbraking, elbow dragging, knee dragging, wheelies(my fav) or any thing in general. good luck, and keep the shiny side up but at a reeeeeealy good lean angle!!!!! :cheers:

[HondaRider22]

The reason we trail brake is to brake later. By doing so we extend the time we are on the gas therefore, dropping lap times. I use Trail braking a lot, everywhere. I've been trail braking for years and I'm just used to it (due to my first bike having horrible brakes)so I wouldn’t say it’s unsafe. It's a good skill to know because given a circumstance that we need to brake later in emergencies and turn at the same time it's good to know what you're doing. Don't be afraid to learn advanced skills. The better rider you are the better off you are on the street. Just take it slow and easy.

[Punani]

got that mike.. good info

[Lost]

:errf: I don't trail brake..

[adobo]

ok, so my technique is ok? is there anything one should watch out for?

[Lost]

When and where are you trail braking? Trail braking in my experience is often not the fast way around the turn. The longer you trail brake, the longer you are holding off getting back on the throttle. I would rather lost a tenth on entry and gain a few mph on exit.

[Termin8r]

When and where are you trail braking? Trail braking in my experience is often not the fast way around the turn. The longer you trail brake, the longer you are holding off getting back on the throttle. I would rather lost a tenth on entry and gain a few mph on exit.

Spoken like Keith Code himself. Aaron ain't fast by accident. :bowdown:

[adobo]

so why do racers use that technique? i wouldnt use it on every corner, i guess it depends on the situation and the corner in question.

[Lost]

so why do racers use that technique? i wouldnt use it on every corner, i guess it depends on the situation and the corner in question.
I don't think all racers use this technique. For some tracks on some turns it works. Generally, i don't trail brake unless there is special turn or if i am tyring to outbreak someone to get past them. Then if they are behind me i don't worry about my slower exit on the turn because generally they can't get around you at that point because they had to check-up after they were passed. I know some racers use trail braking more but its not something i practice or do on purpose.

One thing to remember is this is just my $.02. Hopefully some other racers will post up their thoughts to...

Also i posted the $10 analogy from twist of the wrist up on another thread. Read that for more info about corner traction. It may help to see that if you are on the brakes leaned over why you could have used more of the available traction to simply go faster thru the turn rather that use up traction on both cornering forces and braking forces. I hope this helps!

[adobo]

yah i read all of code's books, I feel like I have some change left over to focus on some more technique... like trail braking. i should really set up my front suspension to be a little stiffer because i felt it wash out a few times going aroudn the track.

[Lost]

yah i read all of code's books, I feel like I have some change left over to focus on some more technique... like trail braking. i should really set up my front suspension to be a little stiffer because i felt it wash out a few times going aroudn the track.
If you get a chance at your next track day to have your suspension set up by a suspension company like race=tech or catylist, do it! There is nothing like having someone there to tell, "the bike is doing this," and have them fix it! Are you going to make the Vegas track day? Its going to be a blast! There are some good trail braking turns there. You won't find any at Willow (maybe turn 5 but im too skurd to trail brake going downhill..)...

[navel_rigger]

what if that guy is ready to jump up to that next level? What if he (or she) has already been working on the other things. We can't perfect everything, so that is naturally out of the question. I think it's wrong to squash the persons question. Did you ever ask for help and have someone totally give you a conceded answer? How did you feel? Try to remember that next time you write. Your answer could mean the difference between this person someone's hood ornament, or living.

I do however feel that this should be practiced at the track. If you are going fast enough to need trail braking on the street, your gonna be sorry sooner than later.

[navel_rigger]

hey zx6 racer, way to tell it like it is man. I wish everyone could be as down to earth as you seemed to be from that response. To adobo...keep it up man. Just remember to ride within your means.

[Lost]

what if that guy is ready to jump up to that next level? What if he (or she) has already been working on the other things. We can't perfect everything, so that is naturally out of the question. I think it's wrong to squash the persons question. Did you ever ask for help and have someone totally give you a conceded answer? How did you feel? Try to remember that next time you write. Your answer could mean the difference between this person someone's hood ornament, or living.

I do however feel that this should be practiced at the track. If you are going fast enough to need trail braking on the street, your gonna be sorry sooner than later.
I gave my opinion on trail braking... If you think its something you want to try then go for it but i personally don't like to trail break. Personal preference..

[Lost]

Ok i've kinda been working on my trail braking... although i'm not really sure what the hell i'm doing... basically I do my hard braking just before i turn in, as i turn in i am still applying brakes, but a lot lighter... As i approach the apex I roll on the throttle ever so smoothly, then after the apex i let the throttle out more and more until i straighten.

I haven't performed this technique at extreme lean angles yet... I'm saving that for the track, mostly i've been doing this making my daily turns onto streets around town.

please share. :cheers:
After reading Navels post i realize that i came off the wrong way on this thread. Back to your original question. Yes, you are trail braking properly. Be very careful on the street as you know because you are useing a technique that uses alot of traction. The farther you lean over the more you will feather the front brakes. When i used to ride Pally i remember trail braking quite a bit there. Good luck!