Countersteering the Keith Code Way

[Termin8r]

Going to Keith Code's superbike school was an eye-opener for me. I learned that while I can read about technique, such as from his book "Twist of the Wrist 2," applying it with the aid of an instructor is so much better. I thought I'd share some of what I learned in the school to help others understand the importance of this technique and hopefully have others here benefit as well. If anything, maybe it can save your lilfe someday.

There was a previous thread where someone asked about countersteering, as he couldn't really understand the concept very well. I don't want to beat a dead horse with a stick, so countersteering is the act of pushing on the side of the bar (clip-on or whatever you want to call it) in the same direction as you wish to turn. In other words, if you push on the left side of the bar, the bike tilts toward that direction and you begin to turn left.

What I didn't know where all these other techniques associated with countersteering:

Push forward: I think a lot of people are guilty of pushing the bar downward to initiate a turn. Hypersport (Mike) and I were doing it in the beginning of Level 1 without ever realizing that that's what we did. However, when our instructor corrected us and showed how we want to have our elbows bent where our upper arm is parallel with the ground, using a pushing forward motion instead was a more effective way to take it from an upright position to a desired lean angle.

Quick turning: How long should the pressure be applied to the bar when initiating a turn? It doesn't have to take long at all. They called it a lazy turn when you kept pressure on the bar longer than necessary. They showed me how there was no reason I could not push the bar as fast as anyone else out there to get from an upright position to a lean angle. After trying it out, it was like, "Wow." The key to the turn was as you approached the turn, you prepare your body position for the turn, roll of the throttle, then BAM, push the bar quickly to initiate the turn. This is definitely a technique I would encourage to practice on a track, but once you get it, you'll wonder all along why you didn't do this before.

Relax: After initiating the turn by applying the quick turn method above, the pressure on the bar does not need to be held. You should only be applying one steering input through each turn ideally. After you enter the desired lean angle to make the turn, you relax your arms applying no more input to the bars and roll the throttle gradually as soon as possible as you go through the turn to re-enter a stable state for the bike. I say re-enter because Keith says that the bike is only stable in two positions: upright or at a lean both with the throttle on. The act of getting it from one state to another is unstable.

Countersteering out of a turn: At the end of a turn as you're rolling the throttle gradually, the act of bringing your bike back up in an upright position also comes from the act of countersteering. Most people probably don't realize this as it definitely is more gradual than when a turn is initiated. However, racers may countersteer the bike up even before they get their body up from hanging off just so they can begin accelarating sooner. This was one of last exercise of Level 2.

There is definitely more that I picked up from the course, but I thought I'd share the countersteering portion for starters. Hope it helps.

[druskizee]

how much is this?

[Termin8r]

how much is this?

It'll be the best $345/level you spend toward improving your riding safety. Jason Pridmore and Freddie Spencer also offer good classes from what I hear.

[GixxerDemon55]

Good Info, thanks for the heads up. I hope to take a superbike race school someday. It might of saved me from a low-side crash up at fontana.

[MrCrashRR]

also, try to finish your breaking and start your turning (that quick turn in) at the same time so you do not upset the suspention and makes for a much more planted and smoother transistion.

[afrothunder]

good write up rich!
thanks for sharing!

[what?!]

umm, so countersteering is just to initiate the lean? do not hold it throughout the turn?

:squid:

[Termin8r]

umm, so countersteering is just to initiate the lean? do not hold it throughout the turn?

:squid:

I wrote just as I learned it. Countersteering is j ust to initiate the lean but to the degree that the bike will make it through the turn. Push a little for a gradual turn. Push more for a sharper one. After, just relax your arms and throttle up through the turn. No need to keep the pressure on the bar as that would add additional steering input and would cause the suspension not to absorb a bump in the turn as well. This is especially true for turn 5 or 6 at Streets of Willow.

[Lost]

I wrote just as I learned it. Countersteering is j ust to initiate the lean but to the degree that the bike will make it through the turn. Push a little for a gradual turn. Push more for a sharper one. After, just relax your arms and throttle up through the turn. No need to keep the pressure on the bar as that would add additional steering input and would cause the suspension not to absorb a bump in the turn as well. This is especially true for turn 5 or 6 at Streets of Willow.
Funny thing is i used to apply more counter steering input between turns 5 and 6(to tighten the line rather than lean more). In fact i think i even posted here about it. I do not do this any more and try to stay as loose as possible. I never had any problems with it, but that does not mean it was the proper way to do it!

[Termin8r]

Funny thing is i used to apply more counter steering input between turns 5 and 6(to tighten the line rather than lean more). In fact i think i even posted here about it. I do not do this any more and try to stay as loose as possible. I never had any problems with it, but that does not mean it was the proper way to do it!

Man, that bump over there is scary as hell. I know when I went over it, it freaked me out a little bit. Thank God I didn't have a white-knuckle grip on the bars at the time or I may have gone down like Nemesis on the socalsportbikes board. It definitely made for a good reference point after that as to where I DIDN'T want to be on the track at that turn.

[what?!]

I wrote just as I learned it. Countersteering is j ust to initiate the lean but to the degree that the bike will make it through the turn. Push a little for a gradual turn. Push more for a sharper one. After, just relax your arms and throttle up through the turn. No need to keep the pressure on the bar as that would add additional steering input and would cause the suspension not to absorb a bump in the turn as well. This is especially true for turn 5 or 6 at Streets of Willow.

umm, i dunno if it's just me or the fact that i'm shorter, but adding to that and once you get into the turn aren't you supposed to "put your face where your mirror is", relax your arms and lean? like, i learned this weekend that it's easier for me to lean sorta back (plant my butt in the seat) instead of have my weight forward and throttle it. also, while shifting my shoulders. it feels a lil more stable. but then again i dunno if the taller people "roca wear" (lean back haha) in the turns but look like they're leaning forward because of the longer torso or whatever...i dunno. i'm still a noob :thumbsup:

[adobo]

umm, so countersteering is just to initiate the lean? do not hold it throughout the turn?

:squid:

you only need to push on the bars on turn in... if you have enough balls, you can actually take both hands off the bars while leaned over ... you need no steering input mid turn.

[what?!]

if you have enough balls, you can actually take both hands off the bars while leaned over...

how bout throttling? :ha:

[MrCrashRR]

you only need to push on the bars on turn in... if you have enough balls, you can actually take both hands off the bars while leaned over ... you need no steering input mid turn.


also a good indicator on set up.

if you feel like when you are cornering the bike just wants to keep falling....either raise the front and or lower the rear.

if the bike feels like you need to keep on the bars to keep it turning, drop te front and or raise the rear.

once you have it where you can set the lean and take your hands off the bars, you have the correct set up.

[Termin8r]

how bout throttling? :ha:

Throttle steering, or steering with the rear tires, is necessary to keep the bike in a stable state when in a lean. Thus, taking both hands off will probably cause the bike to go wide since the front will become loaded if one rolls off the throttle. Now a throttle lock may work in this situation, but the ideal 60/40 weight distribution of a bike requires "rolling" on the throttle and not just keeping it open.

I guess that means I'd never have enough balls to try this, but I'm willing to bet Keith or one of his instructors have just to see what happens. They're crazy like that.

[what?!]

haha yeah...i was being sarcastic. cyber talk!

[MrCrashRR]

Throttle steering, or steering with the rear tires, is necessary to keep the bike in a stable state when in a lean. Thus, taking both hands off will probably cause the bike to go wide since the front will become loaded if one rolls off the throttle. Now a throttle lock may work in this situation, but the ideal 60/40 weight distribution of a bike requires "rolling" on the throttle and not just keeping it open.

I guess that means I'd never have enough balls to try this, but I'm willing to bet Keith or one of his instructors have just to see what happens. They're crazy like that.

not trying to give you ****, but you wouldnt go wide.

extra weight on the front loads the front and the bike to turn quicker ( same as lowering the front to change strreing geometry).

the bike runs wide from compressing the rear, hense why people raise the rear and other adjustments to keep it on line.

ive taken my hands off the bars in turns many times just for fun, and it does hold a line pretty well as long as your set up is correct,...but if it isnt, like i was stating before, you will know very quickly by the bike wanting to stand up , or keep falling

[Termin8r]

extra weight on the front loads the front and the bike to turn quicker ( same as lowering the front to change strreing geometry).

the bike runs wide from compressing the rear, hense why people raise the rear and other adjustments to keep it on line.

ive taken my hands off the bars in turns many times just for fun, and it does hold a line pretty well as long as your set up is correct,...but if it isnt, like i was stating before, you will know very quickly by the bike wanting to stand up , or keep falling

No worries, Casey. I stated "probably" since I've never tried it myself and probably never will.

Your statement about the front needing to be loaded to turn the bike quicker (at the turn point) is absolutely correct and was never in question. However, loading the front during a turn, vs. at the turn point, was what we were talking about and rolling off the throttle in this state (by removing ones hands from the bars) is never a good idea according to what I learned.

I don't know about your compressing the rear theory either as far as why a bike goes wide. I think the bike turns better when the rear is higher relative to the front. However, I don't know if actually compressing the rear will actually make the bike run wide. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for the instructors to have us scoot all the way to the back of the seat when leaning off the bike going through a turn.

I'm not saying you're theories aren't correct and that Keith Code's is, but since I paid the guy over $700, I think I stick with his for now. :thumbsup:

[MrCrashRR]

No worries, Casey. I stated "probably" since I've never tried it myself and probably never will.

Your statement about the front needing to be loaded to turn the bike quicker (at the turn point) is absolutely correct and was never in question. However, loading the front during a turn, vs. at the turn point, was what we were talking about and rolling off the throttle in this state (by removing ones hands from the bars) is never a good idea according to what I learned.

I don't know about your compressing the rear theory either as far as why a bike goes wide. I think the bike turns better when the rear is higher relative to the front. However, I don't know if actually compressing the rear will actually make the bike run wide. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for the instructors to have us scoot all the way to the back of the seat when leaning off the bike going through a turn.

I'm not saying you're theories aren't correct and that Keith Code's is, but since I paid the guy over $700, I think I stick with his for now. :thumbsup:

im sure what im saying and what code is saying is the same thing. im talking about exaggerated improper set up and results

[Lost]

I would never have the nutz to even think about taking my hands off the bars(boTH), at any real speed. I guess im too much of a control freak...heheheh

(off topic)There is alot of talk here about proper setup, but i have a tidbit to throw in. As you get faster, your "ideal" suspension setup changes alot. If you are talking about doing 1:33 laps vs 1:30's, these are two totally different suspension setups. Im sure that by the time i drop two more seconds it will change again.

I will say that i think one of the reasons for this is that at a different speed, you compression and rebound settings are working at different speeds(bump wise) and that forces the rider to make the proper adjustments or suffer slower lap times. I know that at streets of willow my current setup really sucks unless i really push and then it gets ALOT better and i can push even harder because everything is working better.

(back on topic) I personally make a few adjustments sometimes thru a turn depending on what is going on. Generally this is only when i am really pushing. Then again im not really that fast.

[Termin8r]

Then again im not really that fast.

I heard this about you. :rolleyes:

Actually, suspension setup isn't really what this thread was supposed to be about. That's something we can talk about on a separate thread. On it, we can also talk about how excellent throttle control can compensate for a less than perfect suspension. :)