Clutch talk

[Cyanide41]

Reading Shaggy's post in the Pahrump thread about never using the clutch got me thinking.... "What about down shifting?" I always use the clutch when down shifting. I ride an sv650 and found that if I just dump the clutch, my rear gets real upset about it. So I wonder who else never uses the clutch? What do you do when you are coming from a fast stretch into a tight corner and you are hard on the brakes and needing to go down a few gears? How do you keep it smooth?

[brownbrown4]

:holymoly: Revv the engine to get the RPM's close to the engine speed, then shift. like they do in the races.:holymoly:

[shaggy]

yeah, if you time it right while hard on the brakes you blip the throttle downshift. Now this can do some serious damage to your tranny if you don't time it right so you might want to make sure your really good at blipping the throttle while using the clutch before you attemt to do it without the clutch.

blipping: as you go into the corner hard on the brakes pull in the clutch, blip the throotle to raise the rpm( this is the hard part, to blip the throttle while maintaining constant brake pressure without letting off or grabbing more brake) then downshift and let the clutch out smoothly.

no clutch: hard on brakes, while blipping thottle downshift. if done right it's very simple and smooth, if done incorrectly your tranny blows up...

[GPTECHMAN]

yeah, if you time it right while hard on the brakes you blip the throttle downshift. Now this can do some serious damage to your tranny if you don't time it right so you might want to make sure your really good at blipping the throttle while using the clutch before you attemt to do it without the clutch.

blipping: as you go into the corner hard on the brakes pull in the clutch, blip the throotle to raise the rpm( this is the hard part, to blip the throttle while maintaining constant brake pressure without letting off or grabbing more brake) then downshift and let the clutch out smoothly.

no clutch: hard on brakes, while blipping thottle downshift. if done right it's very simple and smooth, if done incorrectly your tranny blows up...

I like the blipping consequence better than the no clutch....
I only clutchless upshift if I am really really concentrating on it. Otherwise it doesnt come first nature to me. Especially at the track. I always use the clutch.
But Im not fast so I dont mind. I dont think I would be any faster if I did anyways:)

[melonheadR6]

if done incorrectly your tranny blows up...

ummm... scary... :bowdown:

[brownbrown4]

did i forget to mention the pulling in the clutch part?:errf:apologies, yes i always pull in the clutch b4 i blip(with clutch in) and downshift. i like my bike having ALL of its gears intact. and im such a wuss i won't even upshift without the clutch... too poor to buy a new bike tranny :ko:

[shaggy]

you should see the shift fork I pulled outta my tranny when I first learned how to ride without the clutch. I should mention that you shouldn't do this at all unless your willing to take apart your motor to replace worn parts!

[brownbrown4]

And the verdit is in. I'm NEVER DOING IT ! dont know how to change shift forks... im a light maintenence kinda guy.

[Cyanide41]

I always upshift with out the clutch. I even find myself doing it on the street subconciously. As far as down shifting... I would always over brake when trying to blip. So this weekend I learned a new meathod and that is to not close the throttle completely. engage clutch, down shift, release clutch smoothly. By not closing the throttle completely, it does the same as blipping without the added wrist movement. Releasing slowly &smoothly will keep that back end happy. I worry about how much wear it does on the clutch though

[Lost]

Im a clutch guy. I guess it comes from dirtbiking where you are using your clutch ALL the time. Hell, on a dirtbike your clutch determines speed as much or more often than your throttle!

[Lost]

It should be noted that Jason has incredible bike skills. I would say that at his level or beyond this may be something to concentrate on but us mere mortals probablly have other places our attention needs to be.

[shaggy]

It should be noted that Jason has incredible bike skills. I would say that at his level or beyond this may be something to concentrate on but us mere mortals probablly have other places our attention needs to be.

:rolleyes: yeah, thats why I have a F'ed up shoulder and my left arm is 3/4" shorter than my right arm! Thanks for the compliment though Aaron!:cheers:

[GixxerDemon55]

I just got a slipper clutch! Got rid of rear wheel chatter/lock up in a hurry. Still learning the concept of blipping the throttle.

[daMartian]

I just got a slipper clutch! Got rid of rear wheel chatter/lock up in a hurry. Still learning the concept of blipping the throttle.

i thought if you have a slipper clutch that you dont have to blip the throttle?

[GixxerDemon55]

i thought if you have a slipper clutch that you dont have to blip the throttle?

Normally I don't! I usually bang down the gears and dump the clutch, but when theres no one around me on the track I'll try it out. Its just good practice ya know..

[Kurt'sSV]

My dad said he only used his clutch at the starts of his motocross races, but that was a 2-stroke motocross bike from the 70's. I use the clutch on down shifts, though I don't blip too much. It's kind of fun for the back end to break lose going into a corner.

I don't use the clutch on upshifts. I think the bike accelaretes faster w/o it.

[veejay]

maybe I'm not understanding this right...

how do you blip the throttle without using the clutch? wouldn't that cause the bike to lunge forward since the clutch is engaged?

[shaggy]

maybe I'm not understanding this right...

how do you blip the throttle without using the clutch? wouldn't that cause the bike to lunge forward since the clutch is engaged?

if you don't time it right, yes. If you time it right though you shift just as the engine unloads the tranny and slips into the next gear up without accelerating the bike at all.

[ninjanick]

Any detrimental effects not blipping on downshifts w/o slipper? I've heard 2 schools of thought: (1) blip and (2) using more progressive clutch action. (1) is probably the safest, but does (2) prematurely wear the clutch or damage the tranny in any way?

[ssoulssurfer]

My dad said he only used his clutch at the starts of his motocross races, but that was a 2-stroke motocross bike from the 70's. I use the clutch on down shifts, though I don't blip too much. It's kind of fun for the back end to break lose going into a corner.

I don't use the clutch on upshifts. I think the bike accelaretes faster w/o it.


Haha, I agree, letting it come a little loose coming fast into a corner makes me feel like a Superbike rider.

[Mael]

Well it makes you feel like a superbike rider till it high sides you.


The thing about downshifting that I took from the STAR school was to let the clutch out slow and smoothly. Think about downshifting a car. No one downshifts and then just drops the clutch in a car, unless you want the rear to lock up. The way those guys downshift really was the most jaw dropping part of the weekend.

Let the clutch out easy and smooth and EARLY when braking for a corner. If you are accelerating hard towards a corner, let the slow clutch release be part of your brakeing.

[pgold21]

I just got a slipper clutch! Got rid of rear wheel chatter/lock up in a hurry. Still learning the concept of blipping the throttle.

What is a slipper clutch and how does it work? Do any new bikes, other than the 2006 R6, have one?

[Cyanide41]

What is a slipper clutch and how does it work? Do any new bikes, other than the 2006 R6, have one?


Ever down shift and let your clutch out to fast? You feel that back wheel hop or slide a little bit. A slipper clutch prevents this. Many new bikes are coming with them these days. 749R, 999R, ZX10, ZX6RR, ZX6R, R6, and R1 all have them.

[brian]

to anyone who downshifts under braking, when blipping the throttle, are you using both front and rear brakes or just the rear brake?

[GPTECHMAN]

I would venture to say most of us usually only use our front brake. Although there are a few that use the rear. I personally only use the front, I have blipped using the rear just the eff around but would think that adding that variable could maek things complicated.

[RadPajita]

I was always taught to use my front brake only on the track and I personally never use my rear except on the street. And I always use my clutch when down shifting especially when i blip the trottle hard from like 4th gear to 2nd gear(T2 @ SOW). I've done the clutchless downshift at lower speeds when i'm on the freeway.

wow...this thread was super old-good time to bring it back though.

[Mael]

I don't blip the throttle when downshifting at high speeds, only at low speeds. At highspeeds, I roll off the throttle a bit, shift and feather the clutch out, while rolling off the throttle at the same time.

This allows you to ease off the brake at the same time you are rolling off the throttle, and with the clutch coming out slowly, it makes for great late braking :) Plus you don't have to worry about jerky front braking cause you're trying to blip the throttle for your downshift.

[brian]

what about moto gp riders who seem to rev match all their downshifts. i'd assume most of them aren't using the front brake as i see the back end step out under braking.

[Mael]

what about moto gp riders who seem to rev match all their downshifts. i'd assume most of them aren't using the front brake as i see the back end step out under braking.

You'd be assuming wrong. 90% front 10% rear, and thats generous to the rear brake. You don't see a lot of chassis movement because they are GP bikes, but watch closesly and you'll see the rear tire actually lifting off the ground sometimes under heavy braking. I know there are videos on putfile, google, etcetc of motogp guys on the brakes so hard the rear tire is hovering off the ground.

[brian]

so under full front braking, they're rev matching the downshifts? pretty skillled.

[Cyanide41]

I am almost positive that all motoGP bikes have slipper clutches