***Racing school recommendations?***

[sersalaz]

As you all know, I am heading back down to Sandi in mid-April and want to get some serious riding time in.

I am also checking out racing schools because I want to improve myself. Of course I want to go to california superbike, but what other schools are there in SoCal that are equally as good?

I am finding it kind of ridicules reserving and paying for a sport with california superbike and there has to be an easier way to get some instruction.

I finally got some full gear together and really want to touch a track, so all racers suggestions on the best approach to getting into racing are appreciated. thanks!

http://www.superbikeschool.com

[CPM F4]

Do a search here on race school. There are several write-ups on different schools.

[GPTECHMAN]

pridmore's star school?
red shift which used to be DP safety school?

[shaggy]

the only ones I've heard really good things about is CSS and pridmore's star school.

[sandogn]

I have read extensively about CSS and pridmores school. I would definitely take Pridmore's over CSS. When I was a new rider I leared alot from reading twist of the wrist 1 & 2 and it really helped me out. However, Keith code really doesn't help to much if you really want to up your level of riding skills for racing or on the track. What you will learn at CSS is awesome cornerning skills. Code's theories rely on the principle of getting all the braking done before the corner and entering at high speed and getting back on the gas. His theories work great and will have you railing through corners in no time, however as soon want to race or pass you will be out of luck.

Code's theories start to suck when you bring in the variables like trying to pass when you only have on line. Becuase CSS preaches to finish all your braking upright and get back on the gas ASAP you are very limited in how you can go through the corner. It sure is hard to pass when the guy beside you takes the inside line going down the straight and finishes his braking much later blocking your turn. CSS doesn't tell you about this, and becuase you have believed everything they told you, you are left scratching your head wondering how someone can brake while leaned over and pass you.

What irritates me most about CSS is that they do not believe in trail braking. It is not taught nor do they believe that it can help you. On the CSS forum there is a big debate about this.

IMO cornering was the first thing for me to learn. I can credit many of the techniques used by CSS to help me master this. CSS is great for teaching you to be smooth and have throttle control. What I found out however is that turning is only a small part of the equation. Codes techniques really left me high and dry when it came braking and line choices.

Pridmore on the other hand believes in trail braking and it is a large focus of his program. Now that I have learned the technique I don't know how I rode without it. Trail braking rules! Also, Code focuses on where to start your braking, while Pridmore concentrates on when to end your braking. IMO Pridmore has the right idea.

To make the long story short, when I was a B/C group rider I thought that Keith Code was a god and CSS would be the ultimate racing school. Now, as a mid pack A group rider I have started to realize that CSS leaves out a lot of techniques and skills that are taught in Pridmores school.

I truly wish I would have started out the right way by learning to ride the way Pridmore teaches.

Pridmore = Race School (passing, cornering, braking, lines, body position, peg weighting.......etc)
CSS = (learn how to corner fast (fast entry & fast exit))

Take Pridmore's school and tell me what you thought.

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9910_star/

[pulse]

i think depending on your riding style and learning curve, you could also consider that for the price of one school, you could get 2-3 trackdays at like streets or buttonwillow and get more time on the track and still have plenty of people to talk to and work with you on riding. i would think that to be a good option if you have never been to the track yet so that you can use the track day to familiarize yourself with riding on a race track and getting familiar with all the rules and so forth, so then you could go to a racing school and focus more on what they are teaching you and focus on those skills, instead of being overwelmed with it being your very first time on the track and at the same time your are being expected to follow drills. so i guess i am saying if you have never gone to the track, do a cheaper track day or two and get aqcuainted with track riding, then go to a racer school and be ready to learn faster ways around a track. hope that made some sense lol.

[shaggy]

Good point Steve. CSS is NOT a racer school, they do teach very good skills and the times I have worked there school days I see a massive improvement in rider skills. However there school is, like you said, for cornering. They do teach you good lines and the drills they have you run are great for improving confidence and overall bike handling skills. As far as race skills, I don't think that can really be taught. Pridmore's school is more advanced in nature but without the basics that you get from CSS you'll be wasting your money on STAR in my opinion. Like Jared said, go to the track, then try a couple CSS days, then do a few more trackdays and see where your at. No one can teach you the racer mentality, which is way more important than anything they'll teach you at these schools. You either have that or you don't!

[sandogn]

i think depending on your riding style and learning curve, you could also consider that for the price of one school, you could get 2-3 trackdays at like streets or buttonwillow and get more time on the track and still have plenty of people to talk to and work with you on riding. i would think that to be a good option if you have never been to the track yet so that you can use the track day to familiarize yourself with riding on a race track and getting familiar with all the rules and so forth, so then you could go to a racing school and focus more on what they are teaching you and focus on those skills, instead of being overwelmed with it being your very first time on the track and at the same time your are being expected to follow drills. so i guess i am saying if you have never gone to the track, do a cheaper track day or two and get aqcuainted with track riding, then go to a racer school and be ready to learn faster ways around a track. hope that made some sense lol.

:thumbsup: +1,000. There is no substitute for track time. All the things you can learn from a class or a book seem very different when you are actually on the track. There is no way to describe or teach many of the skills used on the track. Go sign up for a track day in the C group. You can ride a fast or slow as you want. I just reccomend that you never exceed your comfort zone and stay away from your limits. Before you take a race school you should definitely do a couple track days.

[Termin8r]

Just wanted to add that CSS does offer a RACE program that's different from the L1-L4 classes. Standard CSS gives you a lot of principles to start out with if you want to track out. I'm thankful for what I learned from them everytime I go to the track. Even experienced riders can learn something from attending these courses, but one should definitely consider more advanced classes AFTER like the CSS RACE program or Freddie Spencer's school in Vegas if they want help to be competitive in racing. Remember, being fast is more than just laying burnouts. :whistle:

[Knightshade]

So w/all the above recommendations in mind.

I've done 5-6 trackdays, progressed from level 1 to level 2, had my MAJOR crash (hopefully the only MAJOR one for the rest of my life..or at least a long while) and was planning on attending STAR school in September I think at SOW. Would CSS still be recommended?

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[Termin8r]

So w/all the above recommendations in mind.

I've done 5-6 trackdays, progressed from level 1 to level 2, had my MAJOR crash (hopefully the only MAJOR one for the rest of my life..or at least a long while) and was planning on attending STAR school in September I think at SOW. Would CSS still be recommended?

<--Post 100..hooray!-->

We had a buddy who was quite fast and had attended several track days before CSS and didn't really expect to gain much from it. After the classes, he was glad he took them as he was able to break habits he didn't realize and take with him some of the tips to become even faster. I think everyone can benefit from formal instruction regardless of the venue.

Now Pridmore, Spencer, and Code may provide different approaches to riding techniques, but fundamentally, I think there's a lot o things that are shared. Mostly, I think it's just the matter in which it is presented that makes the difference.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure I would have crashed already considering some of the situations I've experienced on the track had I not gone to CSS. I'm not saying it'll keep me from ever having one, but I definitely know a lot more to make it less likely than more.

[GixxerDemon55]

I heard Keith Code's school is good!

[pulse]

So w/all the above recommendations in mind.

I've done 5-6 trackdays, progressed from level 1 to level 2, had my MAJOR crash (hopefully the only MAJOR one for the rest of my life..or at least a long while) and was planning on attending STAR school in September I think at SOW. Would CSS still be recommended?

<--Post 100..hooray!-->


a school would always be recommended if it fits your budget. no matter how much you think you know, there is ALWAYS something in there for them to teach you and like said above, there could be a habit that you are not even aware of yet that they could break. so yeah, it is recommended if you can swing it:thumbsup:

[Cyanide41]

SanDog, excellent review. When I went to STAR, I had some friends who had never been on the track before. I think it is very benificial for them as they were taught proper technic instead of developing bad habits and then trying to break them. STAR offers two levels. A sport and a race group. Most of the lessons are the same. The Race group just goes into a little more detail.

[sandogn]

Here is my advice. Do track days until you think you aren't getting any better from them.

For me, I feel that when I have left each track day I am a much better rider. Every time I go I get faster. Each event I work on my weak points, and try to latch on to the guy that is just a couple seconds faster than me. Last track day I focused on trail braking, so most of the time I cruised around at 80% saving my effort/concentration on just 3 corners.

IMO any track time right now, whether from a school or just a track day is probably going to give you the same results. In general, just by doing track days your learning curve will be pretty damn vertical. When it starts to flatten out after a while then invest in some education and give the learning curve a boost.

[sersalaz]

Here is my advice. Do track days until you think you aren't getting any better from them.

For me, I feel that when I have left each track day I am a much better rider. Every time I go I get faster. Each event I work on my weak points, and try to latch on to the guy that is just a couple seconds faster than me. Last track day I focused on trail braking, so most of the time I cruised around at 80% saving my effort/concentration on just 3 corners.

IMO any track time right now, whether from a school or just a track day is probably going to give you the same results. In general, just by doing track days your learning curve will be pretty damn vertical. When it starts to flatten out after a while then invest in some education and give the learning curve a boost.

that sounds like a plan since I start my assignment in San Diego mid-april and can't get into CSS until mid-june. I would love to get track days in, but a little nervous about showing up and being turned away beecause of some detail (gear, bike condition, registration error, etc)

If there are some riders that would show me the ropes as to how I can get going on track days, I would really appreciate that. There are a ton of things I didn't get off my tail to do while I was down there last summer, this time I am planning not to miss a beat!

[pulse]

that sounds like a plan since I start my assignment in San Diego mid-april and can't get into CSS until mid-june. I would love to get track days in, but a little nervous about showing up and being turned away beecause of some detail (gear, bike condition, registration error, etc)

If there are some riders that would show me the ropes as to how I can get going on track days, I would really appreciate that. There are a ton of things I didn't get off my tail to do while I was down there last summer, this time I am planning not to miss a beat!

track days are very simple. you can either go to the organizations website and sign up or call them and sign up, then your registartion is handled. as far as gear, you need a helmet, full leathers or textiles, boots and gloves in proper working condition. for the bike, tape up all lighting fixtures ( head light, tail light, turn signals), have tires with anything from new to 80% tread, and drain your coolant and replace it with either straight water or water/water wetter mix, and as long as you have a ride there you are set to go. it is alwasy i good idea ot go up with a friend or meet a friend there so you arnet alone but you always make friends at the track if you have to go alone.

so you should try and get a track day or two and then hit up css or STAR school in june. trust me, you will be hooked:thumbsup:

[Cyanide41]

Yeah, what Jared said. BTW start saving now. You are about to drain your bank account. :thumbsup:

[Termin8r]

Come to Fontana on April 22nd. It's not that far away and they have a begginer course you can take in level 1 where someone rides around with you on the track and gives you pointers. Some people found it very helpful and I think it's free.

[hypersport]

Try this: http://fastrackriders.com/faq.html

[Knightshade]

novice school at fontana is I think $125 on top of whatever the day itself costs. My first trackday was at fontana w/the novice school. W/it being my first ever track experience, I'm glad I took it, otherwise I would think I would have been very lost out there.

On a side note, I'm going to try and sign up for the 2 day STAR school in September. CSS is beyond my budget. I'll have at least 2..I'm hoping 3 more trackdays under my belt before then.

[Mael]

Well being a new rider and having taken STAR school, I can say it was worth every cent.

I improved a TON on my own, just by riding on the track and getting comfortable. However, the instruction provided by Jason and the one on ones with instructors were the keys to my vast improvement.

I've ridden for less than a year. The school was more about problem avoidance than skill gaining. Learning the correct way to do things, and then practice doing them right.

I can tell you this much. I've never improved at anything as quickly or as much as I did riding at the STAR school. And they teach you HOW to become a better rider. Not just the skills needed to do something that makes you run faster, but how to evaluate a track, how to learn a track, how to learn a bike, or a specific turn. They teach you things that allow you to teach yourself better.

That was the big thing I got from it.

[sersalaz]

Come to Fontana on April 22nd. It's not that far away and they have a begginer course you can take in level 1 where someone rides around with you on the track and gives you pointers. Some people found it very helpful and I think it's free.

that sounds like a plan, are you going too?

I am on the waiting list for the late april CSS class, but would like to do that at FONTANA either way.

Tremin8r, wasn't your duc black last summer? You ARE the one that lead the "chill ride" last summer with the mob of bikes, right?

[Termin8r]

Definitely going. See this thread: http://www.hypercycles.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7717

My Duc was black last summer, but her tan wore off. She's been working out though so she's got a little more muscle than last year. I led a couple chill rides last year and yes, there was a mob but it was cool.

Hope to you see you on the 22nd.