my thoughts on the new R6...

[shaggy]

SOOOOOOOO... How was the new r6!! Cummon where is the ride review!!!!

Ok Aaron, here it is...

Big thanks to CaptainCR (Adam) for letting me take out his new toy for a session last friday at streets. It was a great experience and I really thank him for letting me get a first hand look at how the new bike compares to my old (but still awesome) r6.

First off, all the press/media shiet is just that, some marketing people trying to make hype. I'm not saying the bike isn't great, but it's not leaps and bounds above the older bikes like they want everyone to think.

First impression, this bike is small, the riding position was a bit tight for me but if your under 6' 1" it's probly a little more forgiving. Actually the rearests on my 02' are higher and more cramped but the reach to the bars is shorter on the new bike. It actually feels very similar to the 03-05' R6, not much change in the seating position/feel of the bike.

Adam was a smart cookie and mounted up some sticky Dunlop rubber to the bike so we could really wring it out. Like the seating position, the bike honestly feels a lot like the 03-05' bikes, just a little more planted and solid feeling. Like all R6's before it this thing needs a steering damper. Thats partly due to the tires but I was getting a little head shake in all the same places I would expect it on my 02' (fun!). I never played with the suspension and Adam wasn't happy with the stock set-up but when I rode it I think it fit my style better than his. I couldn't really complain about anything. It's hard to set-up a bike to the "streets" bumpy track conditions and I felt that the stock settings where actually a good compromise to the conditions, maybe a little softer rear rebound and less compression would have been better, but not much.

As far as power, I was greatly suprised by two things: this thing actually has a pretty good midrange compared to my bike. It pulled out of a corner with the stock gearing from 8,000rpms with no problem. The bike was very happy around the 9-12K rpm band. When I stretched it out to redline I was dissapointed because it didn't "feel" fast. It was a very smooth power curve all the way from 10-(indicated)17.5k. I had a couple laps with some other fast guys and honestly wasn't impressed with the top end power at all. Couldn't even pull in a 636 on the straights, kept even, but couldn't pull at all. I'm sure a power commander and lower gears would help here, but the gearing was actually pretty spot on for this track as it comes. All my shift points on the new bike where almost the exact same as on my bike (02') which is geared -1, +3 for streets of willow.

The one thing I loved? the BRAKES! This thing simply STOPS when your finger even flinches on the brake lever. My first hot lap into T2 brought the back off the ground with a little pressure from only my middle finger. The lever was very stiff but still had excellent control while trail braking into T3, the scariest corner for me! By far best thing about this bike that I wish I could put on my bike was the brakes, however, I've also ridden an 05' R6 thanks to Thad and have to say the difference between the 05' and 06' brakes is really negligible. They both have the same radial calipers and master cylinder so maybe I'll just put some 05' forks on my bike and be good!

The one thing I didn't like? the throttle. On all these newer bikes it's almost like they have a really light throtle return spring so the throttle turns with very little effort. It's just my personal prefference but I like the older bikes with a stiff throttle return spring to give the throttle a heavier feel. Also the throttle was a bit twitchy when rolling back on at midcorner. This is a trait I have noticed on almost all fuel injected bkes and isn't as bad as honda's but still a deffinite thing to worry about when cracking the throttle open mid corner. I'll keep my old fashioned carb's, thank you...(hard to tune, but when there on...there on!)

overall, I'd have to say that this bike is deffinitely a good progression in the yamaha R6 line, carries over all the good features of old and simply refines them. I know it's a "whole new bike from the ground up", "motogp inspired", "not like any other 600 out there"...whatever, it feels a hell of a lot like the older r6's, and honestly isn't gonna make anyone a whole helluva lot faster either. Already I've been seeing the new R6 at the track and guess what, the lap times are about the same as last year...officially, would I buy one, hell yeah, for the price there going for, hell no...I'll take my 02' with new brakes please...

[shichyea]

nice review jason! thanks a bunch!

[Arnold_R1]

So it's official! The 06 has finally been given its finally say...

[R6 Pilot]

Nice review. I will keep my 03 R6 for a little while. I have not been able to put my finger on it, but something really bothers me about the 06 R6.

[shaggy]

Nice review. I will keep my 03 R6 for a little while. I have not been able to put my finger on it, but something really bothers me about the 06 R6.

my finger found it...the front end is really fat, I mean wide form a head on view, the headlights look huge, and compared to the itty bitty tail section the whole bike is lopsided, just like the recent gixxers...

[BontaKun]

Thanks for the review. Finally something that doesn't just spout off all the newest internal engine stats because honestly, at my mechanical level, I could care less. Bottom line is, does it work better than the previous models and in what respect and you hit it square on the button. Props.

[CjrJAM]

Thanks for the great info Jason, I was contemplating getting rid of the 04 and getting the 06. Perhaps it's time to start looking elsewhere *cough kawi cough cough*:shifty:

[deathblow]

Great review Jason. But, how does it wheelie compared to your R6 ;).

[Shady]

I think that it definately pays to take an objective view of any new bike rather to fall into the hype-up of the Yamaha advocates or bashing of fans of other manufacturers.

Personally, I was seriously considering buying either the 06 R6 or 06 Kawasaki ZX6RR last week and was about 60/40 FOR the R6. I went to the dealership and sat on both for the ergos, I looked at all the reviews and tried to get an objective opinion, then I talked racers who had ridden the bike several times in races and trackdays followed by consulting dealers all over the west coast to get the prices.

After thinking about it for a long while, I decided that the $2500-$3000 extra that they are squeezing out of buyers for the R6 wasnt justified by its performance.

Talking to the racers that had raced at WERA Fontana, Firebird and done several trackdays was the most helpful. I think that riding the bike can give you an intuitive feeling about a bike, but a single session, a single day or a single weekend isnt nearly enough to give a person a clear view of the total potential of the bike...especially when it is not set up for you.

I rode my new 06 ZX6RR this past weekend at the races at Firebird and was a full 2 seconds slower on the new bike than I was on my 04 R6. I spent 2 full days setting up the gearing, suspension and getting used to the new power band and I still felt a LOT less comfortable than my 04 R6. It was completely different than the R6, but I know that there is A LOT more potential there. Riding a bike that you are not used to and that is not set up for you and that you are being especially careful with cant be used to judge a bike.

I dont think that the new R6 has invented the wheel, but I know racers that LOVE it after 3 races this year...guys that will swear by it. If the R6 was $500 or $1000 more money than the ZX6RR then I would have a blue bike in my garage instead of a green one. :thumbsup:

[GPTECHMAN]

Ok Aaron, here it is...

Big thanks to CaptainCR (Adam) for letting me take out his new toy for a session last friday at streets. It was a great experience and I really thank him for letting me get a first hand look at how the new bike compares to my old (but still awesome) r6.

First off, all the press/media shiet is just that, some marketing people trying to make hype. I'm not saying the bike isn't great, but it's not leaps and bounds above the older bikes like they want everyone to think.

First impression, this bike is small, the riding position was a bit tight for me but if your under 6' 1" it's probly a little more forgiving. Actually the rearests on my 02' are higher and more cramped but the reach to the bars is shorter on the new bike. It actually feels very similar to the 03-05' R6, not much change in the seating position/feel of the bike.

Adam was a smart cookie and mounted up some sticky Dunlop rubber to the bike so we could really wring it out. Like the seating position, the bike honestly feels a lot like the 03-05' bikes, just a little more planted and solid feeling. Like all R6's before it this thing needs a steering damper. Thats partly due to the tires but I was getting a little head shake in all the same places I would expect it on my 02' (fun!). I never played with the suspension and Adam wasn't happy with the stock set-up but when I rode it I think it fit my style better than his. I couldn't really complain about anything. It's hard to set-up a bike to the "streets" bumpy track conditions and I felt that the stock settings where actually a good compromise to the conditions, maybe a little softer rear rebound and less compression would have been better, but not much.

As far as power, I was greatly suprised by two things: this thing actually has a pretty good midrange compared to my bike. It pulled out of a corner with the stock gearing from 8,000rpms with no problem. The bike was very happy around the 9-12K rpm band. When I stretched it out to redline I was dissapointed because it didn't "feel" fast. It was a very smooth power curve all the way from 10-(indicated)17.5k. I had a couple laps with some other fast guys and honestly wasn't impressed with the top end power at all. Couldn't even pull in a 636 on the straights, kept even, but couldn't pull at all. I'm sure a power commander and lower gears would help here, but the gearing was actually pretty spot on for this track as it comes. All my shift points on the new bike where almost the exact same as on my bike (02') which is geared -1, +3 for streets of willow.

The one thing I loved? the BRAKES! This thing simply STOPS when your finger even flinches on the brake lever. My first hot lap into T2 brought the back off the ground with a little pressure from only my middle finger. The lever was very stiff but still had excellent control while trail braking into T3, the scariest corner for me! By far best thing about this bike that I wish I could put on my bike was the brakes, however, I've also ridden an 05' R6 thanks to Thad and have to say the difference between the 05' and 06' brakes is really negligible. They both have the same radial calipers and master cylinder so maybe I'll just put some 05' forks on my bike and be good!

The one thing I didn't like? the throttle. On all these newer bikes it's almost like they have a really light throtle return spring so the throttle turns with very little effort. It's just my personal prefference but I like the older bikes with a stiff throttle return spring to give the throttle a heavier feel. Also the throttle was a bit twitchy when rolling back on at midcorner. This is a trait I have noticed on almost all fuel injected bkes and isn't as bad as honda's but still a deffinite thing to worry about when cracking the throttle open mid corner. I'll keep my old fashioned carb's, thank you...(hard to tune, but when there on...there on!)

overall, I'd have to say that this bike is deffinitely a good progression in the yamaha R6 line, carries over all the good features of old and simply refines them. I know it's a "whole new bike from the ground up", "motogp inspired", "not like any other 600 out there"...whatever, it feels a hell of a lot like the older r6's, and honestly isn't gonna make anyone a whole helluva lot faster either. Already I've been seeing the new R6 at the track and guess what, the lap times are about the same as last year...officially, would I buy one, hell yeah, for the price there going for, hell no...I'll take my 02' with new brakes please...
This is a fictitious and rumored review....he doesnt even know how to ride "GOOD". Lies Lies....


















































PS. Great review, I really really value your opinion. I think you have a great understanding for bikes, riding, and always trust your feedback. :thumbsup:

Here is the guy trying to "ride" the bike.... :rolleyes:

[shaggy]

I think that it definately pays to take an objective view of any new bike rather to fall into the hype-up of the Yamaha advocates or bashing of fans of other manufacturers.

Personally, I was seriously considering buying either the 06 R6 or 06 Kawasaki ZX6RR last week and was about 60/40 FOR the R6. I went to the dealership and sat on both for the ergos, I looked at all the reviews and tried to get an objective opinion, then I talked racers who had ridden the bike several times in races and trackdays followed by consulting dealers all over the west coast to get the prices.

After thinking about it for a long while, I decided that the $2500-$3000 extra that they are squeezing out of buyers for the R6 wasnt justified by its performance.

Talking to the racers that had raced at WERA Fontana, Firebird and done several trackdays was the most helpful. I think that riding the bike can give you an intuitive feeling about a bike, but a single session, a single day or a single weekend isnt nearly enough to give a person a clear view of the total potential of the bike...especially when it is not set up for you.

I rode my new 06 ZX6RR this past weekend at the races at Firebird and was a full 2 seconds slower on the new bike than I was on my 04 R6. I spent 2 full days setting up the gearing, suspension and getting used to the new power band and I still felt a LOT less comfortable than my 04 R6. It was completely different than the R6, but I know that there is A LOT more potential there. Riding a bike that you are not used to and that is not set up for you and that you are being especially careful with cant be used to judge a bike.

I dont think that the new R6 has invented the wheel, but I know racers that LOVE it after 3 races this year...guys that will swear by it. If the R6 was $500 or $1000 more money than the ZX6RR then I would have a blue bike in my garage instead of a green one. :thumbsup:

I fully agree with what you say here Brian, I know that I cann't even come close to seeing the full potential of this bike in one session. however, I've also ridden an 03', 04', 05', and now an 06' r6 for just one session at streets and what I said holds true to all of those bikes. I agree completely with everything you said, If the price wasn't so high it would be worth every penny. The potential is deffinitely there but I think that for the money I would rather get a kawi like you chose. Or even better...that new gixxer 6 might just be THE bike to have this year...

[GPTECHMAN]

Ima stick with my dinosaur until I have to upgrade. I think that the R6 is going to be a top runner at every club league, but I myself may just have to get a gsxr 750 street/trackbike.

Im looking for a salvage title GSXR, so holla at cho boy if you see one.

[Lost]

Awesopme stuff dude! I guess i will be keeping the "old" r6 after all. I love the bike but it would cost 5k over the cost of the bike to get what i have in my garage. If its not an OMG difference, then ill stick with what i have. Thanks again man!

[cbrsmurf]

Ok Aaron, here it is...

Big thanks to CaptainCR (Adam) for letting me take out his new toy for a session last friday at streets. It was a great experience and I really thank him for letting me get a first hand look at how the new bike compares to my old (but still awesome) r6.

First off, all the press/media shiet is just that, some marketing people trying to make hype. I'm not saying the bike isn't great, but it's not leaps and bounds above the older bikes like they want everyone to think.

First impression, this bike is small, the riding position was a bit tight for me but if your under 6' 1" it's probly a little more forgiving. Actually the rearests on my 02' are higher and more cramped but the reach to the bars is shorter on the new bike. It actually feels very similar to the 03-05' R6, not much change in the seating position/feel of the bike.

Adam was a smart cookie and mounted up some sticky Dunlop rubber to the bike so we could really wring it out. Like the seating position, the bike honestly feels a lot like the 03-05' bikes, just a little more planted and solid feeling. Like all R6's before it this thing needs a steering damper. Thats partly due to the tires but I was getting a little head shake in all the same places I would expect it on my 02' (fun!). I never played with the suspension and Adam wasn't happy with the stock set-up but when I rode it I think it fit my style better than his. I couldn't really complain about anything. It's hard to set-up a bike to the "streets" bumpy track conditions and I felt that the stock settings where actually a good compromise to the conditions, maybe a little softer rear rebound and less compression would have been better, but not much.

As far as power, I was greatly suprised by two things: this thing actually has a pretty good midrange compared to my bike. It pulled out of a corner with the stock gearing from 8,000rpms with no problem. The bike was very happy around the 9-12K rpm band. When I stretched it out to redline I was dissapointed because it didn't "feel" fast. It was a very smooth power curve all the way from 10-(indicated)17.5k. I had a couple laps with some other fast guys and honestly wasn't impressed with the top end power at all. Couldn't even pull in a 636 on the straights, kept even, but couldn't pull at all. I'm sure a power commander and lower gears would help here, but the gearing was actually pretty spot on for this track as it comes. All my shift points on the new bike where almost the exact same as on my bike (02') which is geared -1, +3 for streets of willow.

The one thing I loved? the BRAKES! This thing simply STOPS when your finger even flinches on the brake lever. My first hot lap into T2 brought the back off the ground with a little pressure from only my middle finger. The lever was very stiff but still had excellent control while trail braking into T3, the scariest corner for me! By far best thing about this bike that I wish I could put on my bike was the brakes, however, I've also ridden an 05' R6 thanks to Thad and have to say the difference between the 05' and 06' brakes is really negligible. They both have the same radial calipers and master cylinder so maybe I'll just put some 05' forks on my bike and be good!

The one thing I didn't like? the throttle. On all these newer bikes it's almost like they have a really light throtle return spring so the throttle turns with very little effort. It's just my personal prefference but I like the older bikes with a stiff throttle return spring to give the throttle a heavier feel. Also the throttle was a bit twitchy when rolling back on at midcorner. This is a trait I have noticed on almost all fuel injected bkes and isn't as bad as honda's but still a deffinite thing to worry about when cracking the throttle open mid corner. I'll keep my old fashioned carb's, thank you...(hard to tune, but when there on...there on!)

overall, I'd have to say that this bike is deffinitely a good progression in the yamaha R6 line, carries over all the good features of old and simply refines them. I know it's a "whole new bike from the ground up", "motogp inspired", "not like any other 600 out there"...whatever, it feels a hell of a lot like the older r6's, and honestly isn't gonna make anyone a whole helluva lot faster either. Already I've been seeing the new R6 at the track and guess what, the lap times are about the same as last year...officially, would I buy one, hell yeah, for the price there going for, hell no...I'll take my 02' with new brakes please...

Great review and I totally agree about the brakes -- fantastic (well on my 05). However, I probably don't use the brakes as hard as you and I haven't really done any hot/warm trackdays on my R6 -- did you experience any brake fade?

Also, how was the slipper clutch? How did the front end feel as a lot of guys were complaining that the right side up forks of the 03-04 provided much better feedback than the 05 inverted?

[Arnold_R1]

I think that it definately pays to take an objective view of any new bike rather to fall into the hype-up of the Yamaha advocates or bashing of fans of other manufacturers.

Personally, I was seriously considering buying either the 06 R6 or 06 Kawasaki ZX6RR last week and was about 60/40 FOR the R6. I went to the dealership and sat on both for the ergos, I looked at all the reviews and tried to get an objective opinion, then I talked racers who had ridden the bike several times in races and trackdays followed by consulting dealers all over the west coast to get the prices.

After thinking about it for a long while, I decided that the $2500-$3000 extra that they are squeezing out of buyers for the R6 wasnt justified by its performance.

Talking to the racers that had raced at WERA Fontana, Firebird and done several trackdays was the most helpful. I think that riding the bike can give you an intuitive feeling about a bike, but a single session, a single day or a single weekend isnt nearly enough to give a person a clear view of the total potential of the bike...especially when it is not set up for you.

I rode my new 06 ZX6RR this past weekend at the races at Firebird and was a full 2 seconds slower on the new bike than I was on my 04 R6. I spent 2 full days setting up the gearing, suspension and getting used to the new power band and I still felt a LOT less comfortable than my 04 R6. It was completely different than the R6, but I know that there is A LOT more potential there. Riding a bike that you are not used to and that is not set up for you and that you are being especially careful with cant be used to judge a bike.

I dont think that the new R6 has invented the wheel, but I know racers that LOVE it after 3 races this year...guys that will swear by it. If the R6 was $500 or $1000 more money than the ZX6RR then I would have a blue bike in my garage instead of a green one. :thumbsup:

I think the 05 Kawi's are bad a*s! Very smooth throughout the RPM's, very flickable and has awesome radial brakes. For stock form there were some limitations: low screen, gearing etc, needs ECU jumper. Brian, do the ECU mod, it'll totally wake up that bike.

However, I don't think you can specifically gauge a bike just on one 20 minute session just like Jason rode the 06. . .

I really starting to weight out both the Gixxer 600 and Triumph 675... :bowdown:

I agree that the new R6 isn't a huge step forward from it's previous model, but it does have a lot of major changes that will help increase it's technology.

[BioHazard]

I agree that the new R6 isn't a huge step forward from it's previous model, but it does have a lot of major changes that will help increase it's technology.

Exemplified by the fact that they are still being outpaced by 600RR's in World Supersport and Formula Xtreme.

[Shady]

I think the 05 Kawi's are bad a*s! Very smooth throughout the RPM's, very flickable and has awesome radial brakes. For stock form there were some limitations: low screen, gearing etc, needs ECU jumper. Brian, do the ECU mod, it'll totally wake up that bike.

However, I don't think you can specifically gauge a bike just on one 20 minute session just like Jason rode the 06. . .

I really starting to weight out both the Gixxer 600 and Triumph 675... :bowdown:

I agree that the new R6 isn't a huge step forward from it's previous model, but it does have a lot of major changes that will help increase it's technology.

Oh, I definately know that the 06 Kawi is a better bike than my 04 R6, but my point was that I had ~3 years worth of comfort racing on my R6 and the change from bike to bike was going to take awhile to get used to. The power of the Kawi is amazing, but the suspension/geometry is completely different and it took me all weekend to find out that the Michelin PRs weren't working for me on the new bike (where I loved them on the R6) and I had to switch to the PRCs which gripped much better. My first and only ride on the PRCs was in a race and they reacted much differently and I felt more comfortable, but the trail was WAY too much and I was pushing out of corners with no steering ability at all. The older R6 loves the nose down whereas the Kawi likes to be level, if not nose high.

My post was more of a disclaimer interjected to show that first impressions are just that...first impressions. Potential isnt measured in first impressions though and I believe that the true measure of a bike is not by the performance when it is given to you, but by how far you can take it :thumbsup:

[TreAdidas]

Sooo ummm I heard the like... transmission on the R6's were... ummmm all crap... Sean do you have any thoughts on the matter?

[Lost]

Exemplified by the fact that they are still being outpaced by 600RR's in World Supersport and Formula Xtreme.

LOL!!!

Do i even respond to that?

[BioHazard]

LOL!!!

Do i even respond to that?

Meaning? :rolleyes:

[CaptainCR]

I just thought I would chime in with my opinion on the new R6. First off, I agree with most of what Jason has to say about the new bike. I must admit I was a little disappointed with my first experience at the track with the new 6. I can only really use two other bikes as a basis of comparison for the new R6, so I’ll give a small description of my experience with them.

I started riding the track on my 2000 R6 which up until recently had been the only bike I had a chance to ride in the manner these bikes were designed for. I did have a chance to ride an 04 R6 for a little while and although the bike did seem to have more power I really didn’t notice a drastic change in riding position, handling, or brake feel. Another bike I recently had the chance to ride and evaluate was the 2005 Honda CBR 600RR. A friend of mine was gracious enough to let me take it to Pahrump for a weekend trackday event in January. At Pahrump I rode the RR for two days in just about every session so I feel I got fairly acquainted with the bike after the 150 or so laps around the big track. One thing I really liked about the CBR was how fast I became comfortable on the bike. Initially I noticed that the rear wheel of the bike would “hop” a bit when exiting tighter turns. Dave Moss of Catalyst Reaction was at the track so I had him set up the suspension for me. The RR honestly felt very good to me before Dave had set up the bike (even with the hopping out of corners), but after riding it for a session with the suspension set I was amazed how comfortable I felt. If anyone has a chance to let Dave set your suspension at a trackday it is well worth the small fee he charges. After the suspension was set I felt I had been riding the CBR for years. The power is very linear and the brakes are excellent. The only complaint I had about the CBR over the weekend was actually how the bike was geared. I couldn’t get the bike out of 4th gear (even on the back straight) so I feel I could have made up a little time with shorter gearing. Other then that it felt like a great bike to me.

My experience with the new R6 on the track was a little different. On the first few laps I found that this R6 seemed to handle completely different then the older bike. Like Jason mentioned earlier the suspension has not been set and the bike seemed rather “stiff” when going through the turns. I’m not quite sure if it is perhaps the suspension or just how the bike rides, but I noticed that I was sliding the rear tire much more then the other two bikes I have been to the track with. As I have not had any dirt riding experience, this was a little unnerving for me. Towards the end of the day I became more accustomed to the way the R6 handled, but never really felt comfortable. Perhaps the riding position also contributed to this feeling. When I first sat on the bike one thing that is really obvious is the seat height, it feels higher then any other 600 I’ve sat on. Other differences are the clip-ons are lower/closer to the seat and the rearsets are higher. I’m sure I’ll get used to it, but for now it just seems….different.

Now, about the engine. To me, this bike feels quite a bit more powerful then my old bike. In comparison to the 600RR…not so much. The new R6 does feel like it has more top end power then the RR, but not as much as all the media hype would lead you to believe. The power also doesn’t seem very linear. Although the midrange was adequate the bike didn’t seem to pull until 11K RPM when the power would seem to “turn on.” I’m thinking of investing in a PC, hopefully that will smooth out the power band.

Regarding the brakes…I agree with Jason’s opinion. There awesome. That is all.

So…although the bike wasn’t what I was initially expecting I still think it has quite a bit of potential. I’ll be heading out to Fontana for the trackday there on the 22nd of April. Before then I hope to get the suspension set and adjust the gearing to suit me a little better. So for me, the jury is still out on the new R6, but I have hope that as soon as I get it sorted out it’s going to be a great trackbike…or perhaps…Racebike. :thumbsup:



I’d like to note that after I hooked up my lap timer in the afternoon I noticed that even though I felt like I was fighting the bike at times, my laps were averaging about 2 seconds faster then the last time I was at Streets.

[ssoulssurfer]

Good info to know, I'm a bit surprised to hear that they still have power in the mid-range, I was thinking when they initially were saying it redlines at some crazy number like 17.5, that it wouldn't hit at all in the middle.:bombfeed:

[Lost]

Meaning? :rolleyes:

This subject has been beat to death. What you see in supersport and formula extreme are not the same bikes you get on the showroom floor. Not only that honda pays for the best riders. Club racing is a much better place to look to see how fast a bike is before 50k is thrown at it and the best rider possible. In club racing the r6's traditionally dominate. Im not brand loyal, but your statement is, (sorry for the harsh language) ignorant.

[deathblow]

This subject has been beat to death. What you see in supersport and formula extreme are not the same bikes you get on the showroom floor. Not only that honda pays for the best riders. Club racing is a much better place to look to see how fast a bike is before 50k is thrown at it and the best rider possible. In club racing the r6's traditionally dominate. Im not brand loyal, but your statement is, (sorry for the harsh language) ignorant.

You are comparing World Supersport RRs to club racing R6s? Why? Why not compare World Supersport RRs to World Supersport R6s? They all have the same money to pay whatever shop/rider/team/etc.. that they choose to. So now your statements, umm, seems a little far fetched. All the teams on the World Supersport level can choose their chassis and build upon them as they wish, cost nonwithstanding.

As to why Club Racers choose R6s? Probably because of their light weight, ample power, and the ease at which the flick side to side. Yeah, it does take a little more money to make the other bikes handle the way R6s do, but each platform has the potential.

And no, I didn't think you were bias :rolleyes: .

[Termin8r]

I don't know about you guys, but Adam's comments on the 600RR makes me want to consider one for the track. It's hella cheaper than the gixxer6 and especially the R6. :thumbsup:

[Arnold_R1]

You are comparing World Supersport RRs to club racing R6s? Why? Why not compare World Supersport RRs to World Supersport R6s? They all have the same money to pay whatever shop/rider/team/etc.. that they choose to. So now your statements, umm, seems a little far fetched. All the teams on the World Supersport level can choose their chassis and build upon them as they wish, cost nonwithstanding.

As to why Club Racers choose R6s? Probably because of their light weight, ample power, and the ease at which the flick side to side. Yeah, it does take a little more money to make the other bikes handle the way R6s do, but each platform has the potential.

And no, I didn't think you were bias :rolleyes: .

I think Aaron was refering to AMA SS bikes vs FX bikes, not WSS to privateer racers or club racers. From the club racer level, that is where you'll see dealer bought bikes with all the common bolt ons, and not balanced and blueprinted bikes from the factory aimed specifically for race teams.

Now as far as race teams favor, Honda just has more money to spend on sponsoring better race teams; they're the most profiting motorcycle manufacture compared to Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati, MV. They probably earn so much more revenue then any of the 2 manufactures combined. (think about how profit their car market pulls in every fiscal year).

I read an article about Kenny Roberts Sr was on the verge of pulling the plug on the Proton KR bike but was eventually picked up by Honda. Not Yamaha, after racing with them for so long! Why Honda... because they have the money!

[Lost]

You are comparing World Supersport RRs to club racing R6s? Why? Why not compare World Supersport RRs to World Supersport R6s? They all have the same money to pay whatever shop/rider/team/etc.. that they choose to. So now your statements, umm, seems a little far fetched. All the teams on the World Supersport level can choose their chassis and build upon them as they wish, cost nonwithstanding.

As to why Club Racers choose R6s? Probably because of their light weight, ample power, and the ease at which the flick side to side. Yeah, it does take a little more money to make the other bikes handle the way R6s do, but each platform has the potential.

And no, I didn't think you were bias :rolleyes: .

If you follow the bikes doing well at an amature level, r6 are the favorite, sorry folks it is what it is. To say that a bike in used in club level races is(edit here cuz i effed up my thought!) anything like what is used by factory teams that type of professional level is not a valid comparison. To say that the 600 rr is faster because it wins at that level is not a level compatison to the stock to mildly tuned bikes we use. I own an r6 because i researched what was the bike club level racers were being sucessful on. This year the gsxr could possible be the bike to own, at this point who knows..

You said lets compare the world supersport r6 to the 600rr, fine the 600rr at that level seems to be faster, but to carry that comparision over to the bikes we are talking about in this thread is not accurate.

[Lost]

From the club racer level, that is where you'll see dealer bought bikes with all the common bolt ons, and not balanced and blueprinted bikes from the factory aimed specifically for race teams.

Now as far as race teams favor, Honda just has more money to spend on sponsoring better race teams;

Exactly what i was getting at!

When it comes to bikes with bolt on's at a club level, what bike is used more often? The r6. I don't think after this year it will be such a landslide, btw..

[Arnold_R1]

If you follow the bikes doing well at an amature level, r6 are the favorite, sorry folks it is what it is. To say that a bike in supersport or formula extreme is anything like what is used by factory teams that type of professional level is not a valid comparison. To say that the 600 rr is faster because it wins at that level is not a level compatison to the stock to mildly tuned bikes we use. I own an r6 because i researched what was the bike club level racers were being sucessful on. This year the gsxr could possible be the bike to own, at this point who knows..

You said lets compare the world supersport r6 to the 600rr, fine the 600rr at that level seems to be faster, but to carry that comparision over to the bikes we are talking about in this thread is not accurate.


...ok Aaron, we heard you already, you don't need to tell us twice! :ha:

It always seems to be the year of the gsxr... I think thats the most sought after bike from the club racers standpoint.

[Lost]

...ok Aaron, we heard you already, you don't need to tell us twice! :ha:

It always seems to be the year of the gsxr... I think thats the most sought after bike from the club racers standpoint.

ok so one more time.. The R6......:silenced:

[Arnold_R1]

ok so one more time.. The R6......:silenced:

Yes, the R6=bowdown, but the last time I up at Willow watching the races through out the day, I could of sworn I saw a !@$# load of gixxers out there: 1k's, 750's, 600's.

[Arnold_R1]

I don't know about you guys, but Adam's comments on the 600RR makes me want to consider one for the track.

Buy Marvin's! :thumbsup:

[BioHazard]

This subject has been beat to death. What you see in supersport and formula extreme are not the same bikes you get on the showroom floor. Not only that honda pays for the best riders. Club racing is a much better place to look to see how fast a bike is before 50k is thrown at it and the best rider possible. In club racing the r6's traditionally dominate. Im not brand loyal, but your statement is, (sorry for the harsh language) ignorant.

I don't think Yamaha had club racing in mind (as their main objective) when they designed and built the new R6. They have made it pretty clear that their intention was to win supersport and FX races, and certainly the new R6 has much better potential than the previous bike. In my view the measure of how good a "race bike" is, is when its exploited to its fullest potential. Honda has never been one to produce the fastest/best bikes out of the block, instead choosing to release a more balanced bike for street oriented riders. No one will argue that out of the crate the R6 is superior. The fact that an essentially unchanged 600RR (2005-2006) still maintains dominance in the face of a technically superior R6, is pretty amazing and illustrates the vast potential of this bike which I what I was trying to get at, but I guess I'm just ignorant :errf:

[Lost]

. In my view the measure of how good a "race bike" is, is when its exploited to its fullest potential. Honda has never been one to produce the fastest/best bikes out of the block, instead choosing to release a more balanced bike for street oriented riders. No one will argue that out of the crate the R6 is superior.

The topic of this thread was a ride review for me and some of the others interested to see if this bike would fit our needs. Not the needs of a factory race team. I understand where you were going with you comment. Its just had nothing to do with what the best bike is for people at our level of riding.

The reason for my sarcasm (and i was most likely overly harsh)is because this exact debate we had has been gone over many times. How about i concede that the factory honda teams make one hell of a bike and that the R6 or even new gsxr make a better bike for club level racing.:thumbsup:

[Arnold_R1]

. Honda has never been one to produce the fastest/best bikes out of the block, instead choosing to release a more balanced bike for street oriented riders. No one will argue that out of the crate the R6 is superior. The fact that an essentially unchanged 600RR (2005-2006) still maintains dominance in the face of a technically superior R6, is pretty amazing and illustrates the vast potential of this bike which I what I was trying to get at, but I guess I'm just ignorant :errf:

Very true indeed Mike and you do have a point, but keep in mind that HRC has a lot more kit parts for that bike than YEC has for the R6. :nerd:

[Termin8r]

Buy Marvin's! :thumbsup:

I would if it was an 05. Alan, you selling yours?

[BioHazard]

The topic of this thread was a ride review for me and some of the others interested to see if this bike would fit our needs. Not the needs of a factory race team. I understand where you were going with you comment. Its just had nothing to do with what the best bike is for people at our level of riding.

The reason for my sarcasm (and i was most likely overly harsh)is because this exact debate we had has been gone over many times. How about i concede that the factory honda teams make one hell of a bike and that the R6 or even new gsxr make a better bike for club level racing.:thumbsup:

I would agree there, I think the GSXR-750 might be THE track bike this year.

[shaggy]

Ok, this thread has gone way off topic of a review and comments on the new R6, love how the interenet always does this...everyone fighting about what they "THINK" they know...

[deathblow]

I think Aaron was refering to AMA SS bikes vs FX bikes, not WSS to privateer racers or club racers. From the club racer level, that is where you'll see dealer bought bikes with all the common bolt ons, and not balanced and blueprinted bikes from the factory aimed specifically for race teams.

Now as far as race teams favor, Honda just has more money to spend on sponsoring better race teams; they're the most profiting motorcycle manufacture compared to Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati, MV. They probably earn so much more revenue then any of the 2 manufactures combined. (think about how profit their car market pulls in every fiscal year).

I read an article about Kenny Roberts Sr was on the verge of pulling the plug on the Proton KR bike but was eventually picked up by Honda. Not Yamaha, after racing with them for so long! Why Honda... because they have the money!

Thanks for pointing that out. The technical rift between World Supersport and AMA bikes is one that can not be bridged easily, I will keep that clarification in mind.

Pardon my obtuseness. :silenced:

As far as how much money a manufacturer can spend on a bike, I know that a 2 million dollar race team is sooooooooooooooooooo much faster than a 1.5 million dollar race team. But again, thanks for pointing that out. It seems that the shortsideness that is plaguing us all is a disease, and your point of view, the cure. I will try to analyze your analogy of what happened to Kenny Roberts to explain the fact Honda has alot of money, done.

Hey Jason, thanks again for the review. But I would still love to see you out there on a brand new R6, just because you deserve it and have no doubt that you can take full advantage of technology that it offers.

[shaggy]

Hey Jason, thanks again for the review. But I would still love to see you out there on a brand new R6, just because you deserve it and have no doubt that you can take full advantage of technology that it offers.

Thanks for the compliment Allan, for sure I would love to have a new R6, If I could straight trade Adam for his bike I'd do it in a heart beat! I know that with time and money it would be a more capable ride but as far as me seeing it's limits...thats very questionable! thanks though! you wanna be my tire sponsor so I can go out there and really give it a go?!?

[Arnold_R1]

Thanks for pointing that out. The technical rift between World Supersport and AMA bikes is one that can not be bridged easily, I will keep that clarification in mind.

Pardon my obtuseness. :silenced:

As far as how much money a manufacturer can spend on a bike, I know that a 2 million dollar race team is sooooooooooooooooooo much faster than a 1.5 million dollar race team. But again, thanks for pointing that out. It seems that the shortsideness that is plaguing us all is a disease, and your point of view, the cure. I will try to analyze your analogy of what happened to Kenny Roberts to explain the fact Honda has alot of money, done.




Interesting interview... I found it funny how KR Sr associated the Honda team as, "the people with the red shirts." ;)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Mar/060321-kr.htm

[cbrsmurf]

I don't know if you can really use the $ factor -- I mean, doesn't Mladin win superbike on a suzuki, Tommy Hayden on a Kawi, Rossi on a Yam blah blah blah. If you want to talk about spending, Yamaha dropped a few million both the previous year and this year to update Laguna Seca for MotoGP -- the other factories did not.

And yes, while a lot of the top WSMC riders use R6's, that is only one track. What about WERA, CCS, blah blah blah? I think the results are varied enough that there isn't a dominant or more cost-effective bike at the club racer level

[deathblow]

Interesting interview... I found it funny how KR Sr associated the Honda team as, "the people with the red shirts." ;)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Mar/060321-kr.htm

Yes, I also read that. Honda has money, astute analytical skills you have.

[Lost]

And yes, while a lot of the top WSMC riders use R6's, that is only one track. What about WERA, CCS, blah blah blah? I think the results are varied enough that there isn't a dominant or more cost-effective bike at the club racer level

I don't think you will find that to be the case if you look at previous years. I remember quite a few r6's in CCS. Can't speak for WERA..

[shaggy]

I don't know if you can really use the $ factor -- I mean, doesn't Mladin win superbike on a suzuki, Tommy Hayden on a Kawi, Rossi on a Yam blah blah blah. If you want to talk about spending, Yamaha dropped a few million both the previous year and this year to update Laguna Seca for MotoGP -- the other factories did not.

And yes, while a lot of the top WSMC riders use R6's, that is only one track. What about WERA, CCS, blah blah blah? I think the results are varied enough that there isn't a dominant or more cost-effective bike at the club racer level

yes, Mladin wins on a suzuki because he is a very talented rider and I think the gixxer 1000, as shown in series all over the world, is the best liter bike out there. It's easy to set-up and by far the most powerful. I garuntee that if Honda hadn't overbuilt there 1000rr so much and made it such a pig it would be right up there also, but then again they really don't have the riders...The kawi sweeped up the 600 class because I think the last few years it has been the best bike on the track. Yamaha didn't field a really strong team (especially considering the injuries there top riders dealt with), and the suzuki is just getting old. I'd watch out for Spies once they get this new gixxer figured out. you really cann't talk about Rossi on a yamaha. I think he'd still win if you put him on a kawi or suzuki...

The fact is, ask everyone who is involved in MotoGP and they will tell you that without a doubt, the Honda is the best bike in the series. On paper the honda is superior to the yamaha in every department(except maybe braking stability) it's just that Rossi is a better rider. Trust me, Money has EVERYTHING to do with professional motorsports.

as far as WERA, CCS, AFM...look at the results, yamaha and kawi have owned just about everything the last couple of years(especially if you take Jeff Tigert out of the stats!) Suzuki has been dropped of because the bike is unchanged for so long. Think about it, Yamaha and Kawasaki have both released TWO new models since the suzuki was seriously updated. Hondas just take too much money and work to get going fast at the club level.

I agree Jeff, for 95% of trackday riders and racers any bike is more than sufficient. For that last 5% however there is a huge difference in these bikes that can only be bridged by how much money you have to throw at it. (thats why you see so many yamahas and kawis out at willow today, and hardly any suzukis or hondas..)

oh, and Yamaha spent money at laguna to bring motogp to us, that didn't make them faster in anyway, they just did that for us.

[Arnold_R1]

I agree Jeff, for 95% of trackday riders and racers any bike is more than sufficient. For that last 5% however there is a huge difference in these bikes that can only be bridged by how much money you have to throw at it. (thats why you see so many yamahas and kawis out at willow today, and hardly any suzukis or hondas..)

oh, and Yamaha spent money at laguna to bring motogp to us, that didn't make them faster in anyway, they just did that for us.

Exactly... example...GK on an F4 pulling 33's! Now if that doesn't convince you, I don't what will! Props to Greg for utilizing every single ounce of that bike to full potentional!

[Lost]

Exactly... example...GK on an F4 pulling 33's! Now if that doesn't convince you, I don't what will! Props to Greg for utilizing every single ounce of that bike to full potentional!

GK 33's on an F4 = :lift: :bowdown: :cheers:

[shaggy]

Exactly... example...GK on an F4 pulling 33's! Now if that doesn't convince you, I don't what will! Props to Greg for utilizing every single ounce of that bike to full potentional!


so true! to a point...GBG is doing awesome, and to pull that bike down to a 33 in only his 2nd or 3rd race is deffinitely awesome. But is that to the bikes full potential? I don't think so. When the AMA was racing at willow back in the day Nicky Hayden was running 23's and 24's on the gold old F4. Just goes to show that all the new tech in the world doesn't neccessarily make a bike faster. Just wait a couple more months till Greg breaks into the sub 30's (with what, like 85 hp...)...that shiet will be dope!

[Phamous]

You should have ridden my 636 that friday Jason to do a side by side comparo.....oh well, i guess you will have to do a 636 camparo modded. :guitar:

[cbrsmurf]

so did that slipper clutch make any difference for u?

[shaggy]

so did that slipper clutch make any difference for u?

Actually I'm so used to blipping that I honestly didn't even notice it. Thought about that after I rode it...Maybe next time.

[Peeps]

FOCUS! I think this thread was something about an 06 R6 review (opinion spout off of sorts.....) So, I was just parooooozing through Road racing World and saw a neat clip in the "inside info" section: "A disturbing trend of 2006-model Yamaha YZF-R6s catching on fire after relatively minor crashes is beginning to emerge. When the fuel tank - which extends well beyond the main frame rails - comes into contact with the ground, it sometimes ruptures in otherwise realtively minor crashes. (And then a flaming R6 is pictured) Here, Tyler McDonals's YZF-R6 burns at Barber Motorsports Park."

Hmmmm......I likes me my 04 R6 mo' and mo'.........:guitar:

[GetnJgyWitit]

Very cool read. All of it! Thanks for taking the time to voice your opinions. It has kept me entertained for the last 20 minutes.

Nice review Shaggy. Peeps, I read the same thing about R6's being fire balls!

I love my sv, but Shaggy's R6 was easier and more fun to ride! Still one of the best days I've ever had on a bike! Thanks again Shaggy for that chance!

[shaggy]

Anytime fool, when you coming back down to ride? or better yet...when we coming up there to do THUNDERHILL!!!!!!!!!!!

[GetnJgyWitit]

Anytime fool, when you coming back down to ride? or better yet...when we coming up there to do THUNDERHILL!!!!!!!!!!!

You are welcome anytime! Better yet, Infinion is less than an hour away! I hear that track is more fun then T-hill! I game for either one!

[IluvHorchata]

You are welcome anytime! Better yet, Infinion is less than an hour away! I hear that track is more fun then T-hill! I game for either one!


What up Jiggy? If I bring my new toy up there, will you show me how ride it???

:pray: :pray: :lol:

[cbrsmurf]

was that tifoso's sv?

[shaggy]

What up Jiggy? If I bring my new toy up there, will you show me how ride it???

:pray: :pray: :lol:

I hope you make a bracket for that brake master cylinder first...

[cbrsmurf]

lol... didn't even c that

[HeinskitZgerman]

I hope you make a bracket for that brake master cylinder first...


Well of course I already made a bracket.



:whistle:
*COUGH*out of tie-wraps*COUGH*

[HeinskitZgerman]

was that tifoso's sv?


No it wasn't Tifoso's. Got this from some dude on craigslist.

[HenryF]

ooohhh did I hear Thunderhill? would love to do that track again and even sears aka infineon.

[GetnJgyWitit]

What up Jiggy? If I bring my new toy up there, will you show me how ride it???

:pray: :pray: :lol:

That's a sweet lookin sv! Jeff, no it's not Tifoso's old sv. Come on up we will have some fun on the tracks up here! Shaggy, let me know when you want to come up!

[cbrsmurf]

Well of course I already made a bracket.



:whistle:
*COUGH*out of tie-wraps*COUGH*


That is a pimp ass bracket Bill. It looks titanium or adamantium. Did you have to CNC that? lol

[Arnold_R1]

I hope you make a bracket for that brake master cylinder first...

:roflmao: Thats worse than Techman Fabrications!

[shaggy]

Well of course I already made a bracket.



:whistle:
*COUGH*out of tie-wraps*COUGH*


I should have known better Bill, I apologize for acting so quickly. I never fail to be amazed by true german engineering:thumbsup: