Suspension I just have no clue kids...

[TreAdidas]

Alright I need some help.....

My bike is a 2003 R6.

So I was reading though the suspension guide that Deno shot us the link for:

http://www.gostar-racing.com/information/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm

and I decided that a good place to start would be to figure out how Lee's set my suspension up in October as just a pure reference point, and to contrast that setup with the factory settings. So I got out my shop manual and wrote down where I currently am set. Here is what I found:

Front:
........Preload: 8 (1 being max. or "hard," 8 being min. or "soft." Factory Setting: 7 )
......Rebound: 3 (1 being max. or "hard," 10 being min. or "soft." Factory Setting: 9)
Compression: 4 (1 being max. or "hard," 9 being "soft." Factory Setting: 7)

Rear:
..........Preload: 8 (9 being max. or "hard," 1 being min. or "soft." Factory Setting: 4)
........Rebound: 5 (5 being max. or "hard," 20 being min. or "soft." Factory Setting: 10)
Compression: 10 (1 being max. or "hard," 20 being min. or "soft." Factory Setting: 10)

Please correct me if I am horribly wrong here but, as I understand it:

-Preload is the amount of force that is takes to compress the shock or the forks, where as compression dampening is a matter of how muhc time it takes to compress the shock.

-So if I have increased or hard preload... I need to be putting some serious weight to get these forks or shock to get them to move, if I have high dampening it will take longer to get the forks or shock to compress regardless of how much force is applied to them.

---

-Rebound Dampening is a matter of how much time it takes the forks or shock to retun to their neutral extended position (by neutral point I mean where the rider sag is set.) This means once the increased force (say from the big turnout) is removed this controls how quickly the nose comes up? Increased dampening means the nose will take longer to come up and decreased dampening means that the nose or rear shock will quickly extend.

The issues that keep me up at night:

-So why in the world would Lee's set my rear preload one click away from maximum or "hard" and leave my front preload as soft as possible, all the while increasing the compression and dampening?

And the rear alone...

-Why make this thing damn near impossible to compress and then make the rebound as hard as possible? Basically it seems that they set it so that in the rare instance that I could compress the shock, it would be sure to not shoot back up.

Why I am so damn interested in this:

-I have begun to think that my bike could dig into the turn alittle big more.... it seems like the bike enjoys the outside of the lane more than being "hucked in." Don't get me wrong I realize that a lot of this comes from my developing riding technique, but that should be another thread... isn't there somethign with compression up front that effects this?

-I have dropped roughly 35 lbs since I had this suspension set up done. When I had my bike out this weekend, I was able to get the read tire to chatter or skip around under heavy braking, which was not such a pleasant experience the first few times it happened, I was thinking my preload is too high.

O.K. whoa long post... but I am SOOOOO CONFUSED and I am trying to figure this out in my own head.

[deno]

well chuck your preload should be set up with you on the bike, it is set up to your weight specifically. was this set up while you were on the bike with gear on? so me that front preload seems a bit soft for you....... the front compression and rebound sound good adn the rear could be good and it could be off but that depends on how your bike handels and you change it from there. if you bike seems to run wide exiting corners, then your back is compressing too much on the gas and you need to harden up the compression.

[Arnold_R1]

Chuck, check out this article on Sport Rider about suspension terminology and how to's. Sport Rider (http://www.sportrider.com/tech/suspension/)

[11A-ABN]

Set the sag with you on the bike, and get in the ballpark for your suspension. The rest, tweak them left and ride as you ride, and see which setting works better for you.

[YuJinha]

Originally posted by Arnold_R1
Chuck, check out this article on Sport Rider about suspension terminology and how to's. Sport Rider (http://www.sportrider.com/tech/suspension/)

I always wondered how different a ride would be with suspension set for my weight. Guess I'll have to set aside a weekend to knock this stuff out if it's not too hard.

[deathblow]

Originally posted by YuJinha
I always wondered how different a ride would be with suspension set for my weight. Guess I'll have to set aside a weekend to knock this stuff out if it's not too hard.

It makes quite a noticeable difference. The suspension is working for you :).

[Philo]

Originally posted by YuJinha
I always wondered how different a ride would be with suspension set for my weight. Guess I'll have to set aside a weekend to knock this stuff out if it's not too hard.

I'm in the same boat as you. If we could find another person we could set our sag and start from there. Need 1 to hold bike and 1 to measure while rider sits on bike.

Maybe we could set our sags friday night and dial 'em in riding saturday morning. Or set sag saturday mornin. Whatever.

Anybody??? Chad???
Bueller.............Bueller.............

:D

[pulse]

ok chucky and philo just floow these quick directions and then your bike will be set for your weight and then you will have to ride it to figure out the compression and rebound.


set sag (http://www.sportbikesforum.com/forum/setsag.htm)

[pulse]

i am down to help with this as well if you need a hand:cool:

[TreAdidas]

Originally posted by deno
well chuck your preload should be set up with you on the bike, it is set up to your weight specifically. was this set up while you were on the bike with gear on? so me that front preload seems a bit soft for you....... the front compression and rebound sound good adn the rear could be good and it could be off but that depends on how your bike handels and you change it from there. if you bike seems to run wide exiting corners, then your back is compressing too much on the gas and you need to harden up the compression.

The bike was set up with me on it, full gear and all, I got this done one afternoon after Palomar, but like I said... I am a bit lighter now so I am sure that it is off.... I may give the compression a little bit of a bump up to see what it feels like. I was also contemplating dropping my preload a little bit to try and alleviate that back wheel chatter that I got.... Sound reasonable?

[TreAdidas]

Originally posted by pulse
ok chucky and philo just floow these quick directions and then your bike will be set for your weight and then you will have to ride it to figure out the compression and rebound.


set sag (http://www.sportbikesforum.com/forum/setsag.htm)

Ok sag....

Here is another question I had swimming around in my brain...

There are two types of sag... static sag and rider sag.... static sag referrs to the weight the bike itself imposes on the suspension and rider sag referrs tp the additional weight the rider imposes on the bike.. I have heared it said that you need to set both of these. Since sag, be it rider or static, is set by adjusting the preload, isn't setting the static sag pointless if you are going to just simply change the preload once you mount the bike to set the rider sag? I am just not seeing muhc of a point to setting static sag because as soon as you adjust that preload fo rthe rider sag, static sag will be thrown off.

[Philo]

Originally posted by TreAdidas
Ok sag....

Here is another question I had swimming around in my brain...

There are two types of sag... static sag and rider sag.... static sag referrs to the weight the bike itself imposes on the suspension and rider sag referrs tp the additional weight the rider imposes on the bike.. I have heared it said that you need to set both of these. Since sag, be it rider or static, is set by adjusting the preload, isn't setting the static sag pointless if you are going to just simply change the preload once you mount the bike to set the rider sag? I am just not seeing muhc of a point to setting static sag because as soon as you adjust that preload fo rthe rider sag, static sag will be thrown off.

I think static sag is more of a reference to spring stiffness. If you set your rider sag to 35mm and then check and find you have 0mm static sag, your springs are too hard for your weight. If after setting rider sag to 35mm you have 15mm of static sag, the springs are too soft for you. You can use preload to get 35mm of rider sag out of a spring that's too soft for you, but it's still too soft of a spring and you'll be losing suspension travel.

The range that the article you linked (did you read it? ;) ) to gave was below 5mm static sag is too stiff of a spring, above 10mm static sag and spring is too soft for you. Between 5-10mm is ideal. Assuming of course rider sag is properly set.

Basically my understanding is, you check static sag, not adjust it (at least not with preload).

[TreAdidas]

OK so reading that sag thing....

It is saying that the front sag is the distance between the cable tie and dust cap.... which the writer fo that sag article poosted by pulse suggests should be ~34mm-38mm for track and street respectively.

And the rear..

The rear is the difference between the sag with the rider on the bike and the sag with no weight on the rear wheel at all?

Why wouldn't the front sag be taken with the front tire off the ground as well?

[Philo]

The author lists two methods for setting up the front. One based on used suspension travel and one based on rider sag.

If you set up the front to 34-38mm rider sag like you mentioned, you would need to lift the front wheel off the ground. Put the tie-wrap on and sit on the bike. Then lift the front off the ground using the sidestand or if you're strong lift on the triple trees to unload it completely and measure from the dust cap to the cable tie.

Or use the author's recommended setup. I'm gonna statically set mine, but leave the cable tie on to dial it in by measuring how much suspension travel I'm using.

[deathblow]

I just got my suspension setup again at Lee's. Having the Ohlins rear and the front redone by Stig at PPS, I was surprised to see Jeremy change alot of settings. He said my sag was way off and that my suspension was setup very soft. I knew I wasn't really all that comfortable with the way my bike felt at Palomar and at SOW lately, but it was still surprising. Right off the bat, I could tell he stiffened it up alot, it is a little more harsh on the freeway, but who cares :).

[Philo]

Originally posted by pulse
i am down to help with this as well if you need a hand:cool:

Thanks man. :D

If somebody else shows interest we'll have 3. I know not everybody on the board has their sag set. OK how about this, I'll buy beer.:eek:

[pulse]

yeah chuck he said it already. to ste the front you measure the distance from the tie to the dust cap after you have sat on the bike and you measure while the front tire is off the ground.

[TreAdidas]

damn dude... doing this is like calculus

[pulse]

hardly:rolleyes: ....more like musical acustics:mad: